Can NY resident buy in PA?

[rajb123]

I think this is permitted but my research is not clear. Any legal citation providing a statute would be helpful.

Most other bordering states like CT., NJ, Del. do not permit NY residents to buy guns in their jurisdictions.

Thx

 

[NavyLCDR]

Actually, you can PURCHASE any firearm you want to from anyone you want to in PA.

A handgun that you purchase in PA will have to be delivered to an FFL in NY for transfer to you.
A rifle or shotgun that you purchase in PA that is legal to possess in New York can be delivered to an FFL in PA or NY for transfer to you.

18 USC 922 (a)(3), (a)(5) and (b)(3) are the references.

States being adjacent to each other has been irrelevant since 1986.

 

[rajb123]

Thanks...

What statute governs here: (1) the laws of the non-NY jurisdiction (e.g., PA), or (2) NY statutes?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Both. Please read the references provided:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

 

[rajb123]

I would like to physically inspect the long gun in PA, buy it there and take it home, thereby, avoiding shipping to a NY FFL.

 

[smalls]

You can't do that. It must be shipped to an FFL in your state of residence. You can pick it up from them. You can go inspect the gun and pay for it, but you then have to have it shipped

 

[rajb123]

Oh.

Is this a federal law? I don't understand its intended consequence. We don't have a lot of gun shops in lower NY. For example, in NY there are no Cabelas stores.

This law seems like a unreasonable restriction on intrastate commerce.

How do you become a license gun collector?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Will you ALL please read the references provided to you. ESPECIALLY 18 USC 922 (b)(3) the link to which was posted in post #4. Here, I'll even copy it for you:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Notice the bold portion above, what do you think that means?

Also, here is New York state law:

265.40 Purchase of rifles and/or shotguns in contiguous states

Definitions. As used in this act:

1. "Contiguous state" shall mean any state having any portion of its border in common with a portion of the border of the state of New York;

2. All other terms herein shall be given the meaning prescribed in Public Law 90-618 known as the "Gun Control Act of l968"(18 U.S.C. 921). It shall be lawful for a person or persons residing in this state, to purchase or otherwise obtain a rifle and/or shotgun in a contiguous state, and to receive or transport such rifle and/ or shotgun into this state; provided, however, such person is otherwise eligible to possess a rifle and/or shotgun under the laws of this state.

And here explains what happened in 1986:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2011-02.pdf

Contiguous State

The “contiguous state” provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) generally permit unlicensed purchasers to acquire long guns from Federal firearms licensees (FFLs) located in a State contiguous to the State in which the purchaser resides if (1) the purchaser’s State of residence permitted such sale and (2) the sale fully complied with the legal conditions of sale in both such contiguous states.

This provision of the GCA was amended in 1986 to allow FFLs to sell or dispose of long guns to residents of any other state (not just contiguous states) provided:
the transferee meets in person with the FFL to 1. accomplish the transfer; and the sale, delivery and receipt fully comply with the legal 2. conditions of sale in the buyer’s and seller’s States.
A number of States patterned their laws after the original provision of the GCA that allows nonresidents to purchase long guns from FFLs only in contiguous states. Many of those States have not revised their laws to reflect the 1986 amendments to the GCA that allow over-the-counter sales of long guns to residents of any State, as outlined above. This has caused confusion among FFLs, who often read such “contiguous state” State laws as prohibiting sales to residents of noncontiguous states.

ATF does not read State laws that refer to “contiguous states” as prohibiting sales of long guns to residents of noncontiguous states unless the language contained in that State’s law expressly prohibits residents from acquiring firearms outside that State. Thus, if the language in the State laws authorizes sales of long guns to residents of contiguous states, that State law also authorizes the sale of long guns to residents of all other states.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Both New York state law AND Federal law allows a New York state resident to receive rifles and shotguns from an FFL in any state, so long as the other state's law also allows it. There is nothing in PA state law to prohibit a PA FFL from transferring a rifle or a shotgun to a New York state resident.

How do you become a license gun collector?

A licensed gun collector is only allowed to use his license to collect Curios and Relics. A licensed gun collector can not use his license to obtain modern firearms.

 

[rajb123]

Thank you!

Who wote this "stuff" anyway? ....no plain English here.... wow, you need to read it many times before it begins to soak in.... YUK!

Could someone explain the rationale here? If I understand this, I am prohibited by federal law from buying a long gun in Florida if I live in NY since it is not a contiguous state. I am permitted, however, to buy a long gun in PA and take it home to NY unless PA law prohibits this.

How does this law protect us from the bad guys?

P.S. Apparently, the CT and NJ laws do not permit NY residence to buy long guns and take them home.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If I understand this, I am prohibited by federal law from buying a long gun in Florida if I live in NY since it is not a contiguous state.

Prior to 1986 that would have been true. Since the 1986 amendment to Federal law, it is now perfectly legal for you to buy a long gun in Florida.

Gun laws don't make sense. They are only written to appease the anti-gun crowd and serve no useful purpose in reality.

 

[Tom488]

If I understand this, I am prohibited by federal law from buying a long gun in Florida if I live in NY since it is not a contiguous state.

AUGH!!!

No - federal law expressly PERMITS the transfer of a rifle or shotgun, from a licensee (that means an FFL) to anyone, REGARDLESS if the state in which the transferee (that would be you) resides (that means lives in), SO LONG AS the laws of BOTH states (in your example, FL and NY) are adhered to. Again, the contiguous state requirement went away in 1986.

That's why, as a resident of NJ, when I go to Cabela's in PA and purchase a rifle or shotgun, I show them my DL (government-issued photo ID), my NJ FID card (as NJ requires anyone receiving a rifle or shotgun to have one of these), and we fill out two copies of the NJ Certificate of Eligibility form - because NJ law requires that. Note that this has NOTHING to do with the fact that PA is contiguous with NJ.... I could do the same exact thing in Ohio, Indiana, (err - forget Illinois), Iowa.... you get the idea.

As New York State (not talking NYC here - different animal) imposes no restrictions on the acquisition of rifles or shotguns, above and beyond the basic federal requirements (being a non-prohibited person), you're perfectly legal to purchase and take possession of a rifle or shotgun from an FFL in Florida.

As for NJ laws (of which I'm a resident), this is (almost) true... NJ requires that anyone receiving a rifle or shotgun first possess a NJ Firearms ID card. So, as a NY resident, you would first have to apply and obtain a non-resident NJ FID card to be able to accept the transfer of a rifle or shotgun from an FFL in NJ.

 

[rajb123]

Do the FFLs in PA understand this or is it likely to be a hastle?

 

[CWL]

I think that the laws were written specifically to prevent you from circumventing them.

I really reads like you are trying to buy and import guns without any sort of paper trail into NY.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Do the FFLs in PA understand this or is it likely to be a hastle?

You will have to call them and ask them.

I really reads like you are trying to buy and import guns without any sort of paper trail into NY.

Tell us next about the gunshow loophole. How do you figure that the OP asking about how to conduct a firearms transaction legally is attempting to circumvent anything? The OP would be asking about how to illegally obtain a firearm if he was attempting to circumvent the law. If I lived on the Washington side of the WA-OR or WA-ID border and the closest large gunshop to me was across the border in Idaho or Oregon would you be accusing me of trying to circumvent the law if I asked if I could legally buy a rifle or shotgun from them?

 

[Sam1911]

Asked and answered. What the OP is trying to do is follow the law -- no more, no less.