.338-06: The Song of the Sirens.

[DM~]

I'm interested in your rifle. Tell us about the manufacturer, the weight, barrel length and scope. Thanks for the good information.

It's an old 700 Remington action/trigger, with a 22" Douglas #1 bbl., chambered/installed by WC Strutz in Wi... It's stocked in a good quality piece of French walnut to my measurements, and it fits me perfectly and weighs about 8 pounds. I put it together in the late 70's...



I've shot a lot of big game with it,



And drug it all over, from alders of the Alaska chain, to the rain forest mountains,



and above timber line,



BTW, it's an Leupold scope...

DM

 

[sage5907]

It's an old 700 Remington action/trigger, with a 22" Douglas #1 bbl., chambered/installed by WC Strutz in Wi... It's stocked in a good quality piece of French walnut to my measurements, and it fits me perfectly and weighs about 8 pounds. I put it together in the late 70's...

View attachment 830432 I've shot a lot of big game with it, DM

Great looking rifle and great pictures. Three different times in the past I have gone to Douglas for a barrel and I have always been happy. They will chamber, headspace and install a barrel on your action for about $500. Bartlein will do the same job for about $750. The difference in the barrels is that Bartlein uses cut rifling. We never hear anyone talking about buying a Douglas barrel but I would not hesitate if I wanted to use them again. In the past few years I have gotten into sling swivel cups and the next rifle I build will have McMillan sling swivel cups instead of studs. I don't see the studs on your rifle so you may already be using them.

 

[DM~]

Great looking rifle and great pictures. Three different times in the past I have gone to Douglas for a barrel and I have always been happy. They will chamber, headspace and install a barrel on your action for about $500. Bartlein will do the same job for about $750. The difference in the barrels is that Bartlein uses cut rifling. We never hear anyone talking about buying a Douglas barrel but I would not hesitate if I wanted to use them again. In the past few years I have gotten into sling swivel cups and the next rifle I build will have McMillan sling swivel cups instead of studs. I don't see the studs on your rifle so you may already be using them.

I have numerous Douglas bbls, all have been good...

I sold/installed a LOT of these Pachmayr flush swivels,



and that's what my rifle has...

DM

 

[Garandimal]

Am intrigued by the 250 gr. bullets, and am looking hard at the Speer Grand Slam ($0.44/pop).

They have the SD of a 175 gr. 7mm, and should open up nicely w/ the thin fluted jacket up front.

​

Have the .270 Win. for hunting - so this rifle would be primarily for stopping. (and, at 30 lb-ft of recoil, should be a formative experience to shoot)

"Dangerous game" will likely only be big hogs (300+ lbs), and the odd black bear, panther, or alligator.

In big bear country - it would be nice to have along. (lighter than the M1)

At 2550 fps at the muzzle, the Grand Slam has:
- A 6"MPBR(+/-3") of 250 yards.
- Will carry 2400 fps/3200 lb-ft to 75 yards. (which should be plenty for damn near anything.)
- Will carry 2200 fps/2700 lb-ft to 175 yards.
- And hits the gun-writer know-it-all's "Elk" formula floor of 2K/2K at 300 yards.

Seems to fill the bucket.

Will also look at the 210 gr. TSX. At 2800 fps, it should be an energizer bunny.

Lighter/faster/flatter is interesting, and may get into the mix as this project progresses - but I hunt w/ the .270 Win., and can shoot it like a blind man reads braille.

...and 30 lb-ft of recoil will undoubtedly interfere with that process.




GR

 

[sage5907]

Am intrigued by the 250 gr. bullets, and am looking hard at the Speer Grand Slam ($0.44/pop). GR

I have used the Speer GrandSlam bullets in both 27 and 30 calibers and found them to be solidly constructed and accurate shooting bullets. I always liked them better than a Nosler Partition because for me they were more accurate. Speer uses a lead core that is harder than that used by it's competitors like Sierra. In fact, the GrandSlam has two different hardness of lead in the core. The rear portion is much harder then the front section. Even the front section is hard compared to a Sierra. Speer uses it's HotCor process which they have used for many years. I wouldn't expect this 250 grain bullet bullet to open very fast unless it hit something hard but it would penetrate as far as the velocity would allow it to go. I would expect it to shoot all the way through a 300 pound hog.

 

[Missionary]

Good morning
I have enjoyed reading all these as our next time north our Mark X Interarms 06 gets a different barrel screwed on in caliber 338 -06. Have numerous other 06's so it is not like we will not have one handy.
10 years ago bought a 375-06 and have no regrets. It is a JES rebore and shoots great. Very handy and does the "smaller jobs" when our 375 HH Interarms is not needed. So a 338-06 will fit a nice little nitch between caliber 30 and caliber 375.

 

[DM~]

I have used the .338" 250 GS, I wasn't too impressed with them...

IF you want a stopping 250 grain .338" bullet, stick with NP's, they not only expand well, fairly quickly, the rear portion drives in deep, giving that deep bone crushing penetration that's needed.

DM

 

[nhcruffler]

JUST DO IT! A few years ago I fell to the siren song of The Whelen. Some how it just intrigued me with its history. I gathered mauser bin parts for the action , A&B barrel , Timney trigger, Boyd Stock. I finished reaming the barrel , drilled n tapped the receiver , and painted the action with an expoy paint from Brownells , in dead grass green. I got it done in time for an unsuccessful moose hunt but I had it just the same. I don't know how YOU are with recoil but I weigh in at -140 lbs and the heavy 35 Whelan kicks the same as my light 30-06. I say go for it. Our years are getting less in number. Worst case scenario you post back here how that was a bad decision. Btw, I too bad concidered the 338-06.

 

[Garandimal]

I have used the Speer GrandSlam bullets in both 27 and 30 calibers and found them to be solidly constructed and accurate shooting bullets. I always liked them better than a Nosler Partition because for me they were more accurate. Speer uses a lead core that is harder than that used by it's competitors like Sierra. In fact, the GrandSlam has two different hardness of lead in the core. The rear portion is much harder then the front section. Even the front section is hard compared to a Sierra. Speer uses it's HotCor process which they have used for many years. I wouldn't expect this 250 grain bullet bullet to open very fast unless it hit something hard but it would penetrate as far as the velocity would allow it to go. I would expect it to shoot all the way through a 300 pound hog.

Shot the .270 Win./150 gr. Grand Spam quite a bit back when Speer loaded'em.

Read where they dropped the dual-core for a full "Hot-Cor" w/ the same locking and fluted jacket.

They are < half the cost of partitions, so they could dbl as a GP round.

And we have hogs in our woods that go over 400 lbs.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

I have used the .338" 250 GS, I wasn't too impressed with them...

IF you want a stopping 250 grain .338" bullet, stick with NP's, they not only expand well, fairly quickly, the rear portion drives in deep, giving that deep bone crushing penetration that's needed.

DM

As stated, the current production has a full "Hot-Cor" core.

NP's are the first choice, but w/ the reduced velocities of the .338-06 and the cost, the GS looks sweet.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

View attachment 830590 JUST DO IT! A few years ago I fell to the siren song of The Whelen. Some how it just intrigued me with its history. I gathered mauser bin parts for the action , A&B barrel , Timney trigger, Boyd Stock. I finished reaming the barrel , drilled n tapped the receiver , and painted the action with an expoy paint from Brownells , in dead grass green. I got it done in time for an unsuccessful moose hunt but I had it just the same. I don't know how YOU are with recoil but I weigh in at -140 lbs and the heavy 35 Whelan kicks the same as my light 30-06. I say go for it. Our years are getting less in number. Worst case scenario you post back here how that was a bad decision. Btw, I too bad concidered the 338-06.

Nice job on the rifle.

The .35 Whelen - is a great round. Terminal Ballistics Research, who I think very highly of, say it is a better "stopper" than the .338, on account of its ability to apply "shock" down to 2200 fps.




GR

 

[DM~]

As stated, the current production has a full "Hot-Cor" core.
NP's are the first choice, but w/ the reduced velocities of the .338-06 and the cost, the GS looks sweet.
GR

Maybe you don't realize this, but a full "Hot-Cor" core, is just another way to put a core into a jacket!!

For Speer, it's a more precise way to measure out core weights, it does NOTHING to make the bullet perform better in a game animal, it DOES sound good and make people "think" it does though!!

For deep penetrating performance, the core isn't nearly as important as the jacket, and hot core does not mean "bonded" core...

I shot big game with 250 gran slams, in the reduced velocities of the .338-06 and I wasn't impressed with their performance as a HIGH PENETRATING, STOPPING bullet. NOT even in the same league of the 250 NP out of my rifle!

BUT, buy/use what ever makes you happy!

DM

 

[Garandimal]

Maybe you don't realize this, but a full "Hot-Cor" core, is just another way to put a core into a jacket!!

For Speer, it's a more precise way to measure out core weights, it does NOTHING to make the bullet perform better in a game animal, it DOES sound good and make people "think" it does though!!

For deep penetrating performance, the core isn't nearly as important as the jacket, and hot core does not mean "bonded" core...

I shot big game with 250 gran slams, in the reduced velocities of the .338-06 and I wasn't impressed with their performance as a HIGH PENETRATING, STOPPING bullet. NOT even in the same league of the 250 NP out of my rifle!

BUT, buy/use what ever makes you happy!

DM

Appreciate that.

The original Grand Slam had a dual core - a hard lead base w/ a Hot-Cor front. It had a tenancy to come apart if it tumbled, and produce shallow wounds. (although it never happened to me).

The Grand Slam is tougher and has a thicker jacket than the HDY InterBond, and less stout than the Partition.

If the Max was required? Sure, the Partition/A-Frame/TSX.

But the .338-06 does not overstress a bullet designed for the .338 WinMag. Dead is dead - and this ain't Africa.




GR

 

[Llama Bob]

At 2550 fps at the muzzle, the Grand Slam has:
- A 6"MPBR(+/-3") of 250 yards.
- Will carry 2400 fps/3200 lb-ft to 75 yards. (which should be plenty for damn near anything.)
- Will carry 2200 fps/2700 lb-ft to 175 yards.
- And hits the gun-writer know-it-all's "Elk" formula floor of 2K/2K at 300 yards.

Seems to fill the bucket.

Those numbers are not good compared to typical elk rifles. A 7mm mag shooting a 175 Weldcore has a MPBR of 300y and maintains 2000ft/lbs (and more than 2000 ft/s) out to almost 500 yards.

So for the western elk hunter, the .338-06 offers a 200y effective range reduction and 50y MPBR reduction for a massive increase in recoil. There aren't many takers for that. It's the price of an excessively large bore.

 

[Llama Bob]

To get similar performance to the 7mag at range in .33 caliber, you'd have to go to a .340 Weatherby or similar huge case. And suffer recoil twice that of the 7mag. And for all that have gained very little.

 

[nhcruffler]

Nice job on the rifle.

The .35 Whelen - is a great round. Terminal Ballistics Research, who I think very highly of, say it is a better "stopper" than the .338, on account of its ability to apply "shock" down to 2200 fps.




GR

Gr, thanks , the rifle turned out pretty nice for a true beginner. That link to the ballistics research was full of great information about the 35 Whelen . Now I know which bullet to use it I ever come upon a big Griz like Elmer did ( not likely in Vt).

 

[sage5907]

Maybe you don't realize this, but a full "Hot-Cor" core, is just another way to put a core into a jacket!! For Speer, it's a more precise way to measure out core weights, it does NOTHING to make the bullet perform better in a game animal, it DOES sound good and make people "think" it does though!! DM

Speer Hot-Cor bullets have always had a reputation for being effective and reliable for taking game. I have used them to take many deer sized animals and large hogs and it is always expected that I will find a large portion of the bullet under the skin on the far side of the animal. I always liked it that the bullets would hold together and expend all of their energy inside the animal. I always want to kill the animal with one high shoulder shot where it stands and the Hot-Cor will do that. I can't speak to hunting large bear and moose but for my use in a 338-06 I will use the Speer bullets for deer, hogs and steel targets. I do use the AccuBond for longer range hunting but even with it I don't plan on shooting animals at distances over 250 yards.

 

[LoonWulf]

I've used the old grandslams, some hotcores, and a number of different Cal btsps.
I like the btsps but they are very soft, even by my standards.
The hotcores performed as well or better than any other sofpoint bullets, and stayed together better than most.
The grandslams never stayed in the animals I shot, which wasn't a lot. But I was quite happy with the holes they made.

Personally we're I using a rifle for animal defense, I'd go with one of the aforementioned premiums, like a partition or X bullet. For everything else tho I'd be comfortable with a heavy Speer.

As a note I shoot the 270 .375s from my Ruger, and it's capable of taking this bullets apart on bone hits. Be interesting to see what the other types do.

 

[sage5907]

The hotcores performed as well or better than any other sofpoint bullets, and stayed together better than most.
The grandslams never stayed in the animals I shot, which wasn't a lot. But I was quite happy with the holes they made.

Well said. I think the grandslams flew on through because they have a heavier jacket. Speer's btsps really whop when they hit the animal and I use the 165 grain in my 30-06's. I've stopped using other bullets because they didn't make that sound. When an animal is hit by a btsp there is an immediate reaction.

 

[LoonWulf]

Well said. I think the grandslams flew on through because they have a heavier jacket. Speer's btsps really whop when they hit the animal and I use the 165 grain in my 30-06's. I've stopped using other bullets because they didn't make that sound. When an animal is hit by a btsp there is an immediate reaction.

Most likely. I've shot a few with other "harder" bullets and had similar results, tho only the partition opened as large as exit wound.
Our animals arnt real big either, so it's usually a head on, or going away shot that stops a bullet. I may not have had one of those while I was using the GS. Still tho, compared to other 150s the performance was more than satisfactory.

 

[Garandimal]

Those numbers are not good compared to typical elk rifles. A 7mm mag shooting a 175 Weldcore has a MPBR of 300y and maintains 2000ft/lbs (and more than 2000 ft/s) out to almost 500 yards.

So for the western elk hunter, the .338-06 offers a 200y effective range reduction and 50y MPBR reduction for a massive increase in recoil. There aren't many takers for that. It's the price of an excessively large bore.

To get similar performance to the 7mag at range in .33 caliber, you'd have to go to a .340 Weatherby or similar huge case. And suffer recoil twice that of the 7mag. And for all that have gained very little.

Decidedly not a long-range cartridge - especially w/ the 250 gr.

But a very good medium range heavy cartridge.

As for longer range - the Swift Scirocco 210 gr. at 2800 fps has a MPBR of 280 yds, and carries the 2K/2K Elk window to over 425 yds.

The 225 gr AccoBond at 2660 fps has a MPBR of 270 yds, and carries the Elk window to past 425 yds as well.


And then there is the <100 yard performance on monsters.




GR