.338-06: The Song of the Sirens.

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Garandimal

Garandimal

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The .338-06.

Don't know exactly why - but it sings to me.

First started "luring me into the rocks" when Reagan was President.

After copious research, I managed to talk myself out of the wildcat because, while it was an elegant cartridge, ...I had a perfectly good .270 Win, and the .338-06 needed to be blown out (AI) and run down a fairly long Bbl. to make the desired 225 gr. bullet velocity.

Since then - it always seemed to be the first irrational answer to any reasonable question rifle.

"Why not a .338-06?"

Fast-forward almost Four(4) decades.

- The cartridge/chamber is now SAAMI Standardized. (.338-06 A-Square)
- Head-stamped Brass is available.
- New .338 cal. bullets are available, both bonded and monometal (TSX).
- Reloader-17 Powder was released.

Now, w/ RL-17, the .338-06 can push a 225 gr. NP or Accubond well in excess of 2700 fps, and the 210 gr. NP/Scirocco/TSX close to 2850 fps, all out of a 24" Bbl, w/ only a small drop (40 fps?) when the Bbl. length goes to 22".

This gives the .338-06 the energy of (and, when zeroed at 200, a 300 yard trajectory/drop only about an inch greater than) that of the mighty 200 gr./.300 Win. Mag.

All with a .30-06 case and Ten(10) grains less powder.

Elegant.


Which brings me to my current dilemma.

Getting ready to drop the hammer on a new Stainless/Composite M70 .270 Win.

Still have the ole M700 .270 Win.

WP-20180617-11-54-18-Pro-2-crop.jpg ​

J E S can re-bore it for $250 shipped.

"...why not a .338-06?"


Comments/Questions/Concerns appreciated.




GR
 
I too heard the song of the Sirens. And it lured me very close to the rocks indeed. In fact, I purchased a T/C Dimension 30-06 barrel to send to Jesse for just that very thing.

Then I waffled. I got hung up on if 338-06, why not 358-06, i.e the venerable Whelan? And then I hemmed and hawed because whatever can't be done with 220 grs from the 30-06 really ought not be done with either the 338-06 or the 35 Whelan. But, I have a marvelously accurate, easy to shoot 30-06 Dimension. The upshot? I need to sell that extra Dimension barrel.

But in your case, it's a no brainer. You have a fantastic rifle in 270 for flat shooting awesomeness up through mulies. Anything the 30-06 can do, the 338-06 can do, and 225 grs from the 338-06 will comfortably handle elk, moose, and the biggest brown bears. A composite M70 seems like the ideal platform and Jesse does a fantastic job in remarkable time.

No question. Just do it.
 
If you want it, go for it. Practicality be damned. Why NOT a . 338-06!

Most of the guns I own are simply because they interested me, I have little practical reason for any of them....I mean, who needs a .375 for 100lb sheep?
But they all provide significant enjoyment.

I'll never try to dissuade someone from getting something like this unless they have unrealistic expectations, or want something the project can't provide as well as a more standard option. This one sounds well reasoned to me:D
 
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LRDGCO said:
I too heard the song of the Sirens. And it lured me very close to the rocks indeed. In fact, I purchased a T/C Dimension 30-06 barrel to send to Jesse for just that very thing.

Then I waffled. I got hung up on if 338-06, why not 358-06, i.e the venerable Whelan? And then I hemmed and hawed because whatever can't be done with 220 grs from the 30-06 really ought not be done with either the 338-06 or the 35 Whelan. But, I have a marvelously accurate, easy to shoot 30-06 Dimension. The upshot? I need to sell that extra Dimension barrel.

But in your case, it's a no brainer. You have a fantastic rifle in 270 for flat shooting awesomeness up through mulies. Anything the 30-06 can do, the 338-06 can do, and 225 grs from the 338-06 will comfortably handle elk, moose, and the biggest brown bears. A composite M70 seems like the ideal platform and Jesse does a fantastic job in remarkable time.

No question. Just do it.
Click to expand...

My intention (compulsion?) was to rebore the ole M700.

But you are suggesting reboring the brand new stainless/composite M70 - which would be perfect for a dangerous game/Alaskan rifle.

That thought had actually occurred to me, (quietly, way back in the dark recesses), although I was not brave enough to give it light, that someone would think me insane for molesting such a fine mountain rifle with that beast of a cartridge.

:D

The fact is - I will shoot the .270 Win. lots, and the .338-06 little. The M700 is heavier, what w/ that dense piece of black walnut it sports, and the bore, while accurate, has seen some rounds low these many decades.

But I like the way you think.




GR
 
Garandimal said:
My intention (compulsion?) was to rebore the ole M700.

But you are suggesting reboring the brand new stainless/composite M70 - which would be perfect for a dangerous game/Alaskan rifle.

That thought had actually occurred to me, (quietly, way back in the dark recesses), although I was not brave enough to give it light, that someone would think me insane for molesting such a fine mountain rifle with that beast of a cartridge.

:D

The fact is - I will shoot the .270 Win. lots, and the .338-06 little. The M700 is heavier, what w/ that dense piece of black walnut it sports, and the bore, while accurate, has seen some rounds low these many decades.

But I like the way you think.




GR
Click to expand...

I'd probably do the 700 personally as well, the m70 would be sweet, but for some reason when I think .338-06 it's something in blue and walnut.....again just my personal opinion lol
 
If I were you, Garandimal, I couldn't leap quick enough. I love the 338 caliber and while I own a 338 win mag, I've found the 338 bullets to be an attribute in and of themselves. After personally witnessing multiple failures on elk with calibers 30 and under, I've experienced and have heard nothing but praise for all but a couple of projectile offerings in 338 in terms of bullet integrity and limited to no frangibility. It's pretty confidence inspiring to go into a load development session knowing if you have a finicky rifle (which my first 338 is) that if I can just find a bullet/load that will group well, that I can also reasonably trust the bullet to perform well on game animals. I've also shot deer (smaller critters) with 250 and 225 grain bullets (accubonds and TSX) with excellent terminal performance (bullets expanded well causing significant internal damage and an exit wound and most importantly, very quick and clean kills). I would certainly expect a 338-06 to operate without any less effectiveness.
 
LoonWulf said:
If you want it, go for it. Practically be damned, why NOT a . 338-06!

Most of the guns I own are simply because they interested me, I have little practical reason for any of them....I mean if who needs a .375 for 100lb sheep?
But they all provide significant enjoyment.

I'll never try to dissuade someone from getting something like this unless they have unrealistic expectations, or want something the project can't provide as well as a more standard option. This one sounds well reasoned to me:D
Click to expand...

Would be nice to have a rifle that would cover the upper end of the envelope, that was still (for me) shoot-able.

Can handle 12 Ga. 1-1/4 oz. high-base - this will have ~ the same recoil.


Don't really need Two .270 Win's, but I'm ready for a new one... and can't bear to part w/ the ole M700.

Of course, an accurate back-up/loaner .270 Win. was the idea.

But then,

"Why not a .338-06?"




GR
 
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I already have a rifle a rifle for the elephant hunt that I am not very likely to ever go on. I still need to get a gun that is perfect for when the zombies take over the world. You DO need a reason to get a new gun. But it does not have to be a very good one.
 
hillman23 said:
If I were you, Garandimal, I couldn't leap quick enough. I love the 338 caliber and while I own a 338 win mag, I've found the 338 bullets to be an attribute in and of themselves. After personally witnessing multiple failures on elk with calibers 30 and under, I've experienced and have heard nothing but praise for all but a couple of projectile offerings in 338 in terms of bullet integrity and limited to no frangibility. It's pretty confidence inspiring to go into a load development session knowing if you have a finicky rifle (which my first 338 is) that if I can just find a bullet/load that will group well, that I can also reasonably trust the bullet to perform well on game animals. I've also shot deer (smaller critters) with 250 and 225 grain bullets (accubonds and TSX) with excellent terminal performance (bullets expanded well causing significant internal damage and an exit wound and most importantly, very quick and clean kills). I would certainly expect a 338-06 to operate without any less effectiveness.
Click to expand...

Have always been impressed by the performance of the .338 bullets.

But to be truly utility useful, they need ~ 2700 fps to start.

The 338-06 will do that now.




GR
 
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Bill Raby said:
I already have a rifle a rifle for the elephant hunt that I am not very likely to ever go on. I still need to get a gun that is perfect for when the zombies take over the world. You DO need a reason to get a new gun. But it does not have to be a very good one.
Click to expand...

Have been using an M1 Garand/168 gr. TSX for a contingency rifle, and gave my back-up bolt rifle (sporterized 03-A3) to my brother, so that needed replacing.




GR
 
Sometimes there is an an itch that you just have to scratch. Scratch it if you must.

I won't tell you not to do it, but can tell you what to expect. A few years ago I had bolt rifles in 280, 30-06, 300 WSM, 338-06, 35 Whelen and 308 all at the same time. They all worked, all were accurate, all had trajectories that were workable at any reasonable range, and all would kill anything in North America. I reached the point where I wanted to simplify my life and the 30-06 rifles had been around the longest and were the ones with the most sentimental attachment. I kept the 30-06, 308 and 300 WSM rifles and sent everything else down the road. I kept the 300 WSM for a year or 2 longer, but I eventually sold it too. And over time the 308 has even replaced 30-06 as my go-to rifle.

I can load 150 gr bullets to 3050 fps in 30-06 and do anything I could do with the 280 or a 270 with 130-140 gr bullets. With 200 gr bullets @ 2700 fps there isn't any real world difference between 30-06 and 338-06 with 225's. When the 30-06 is loaded with 220 gr bullets it'd do anything a 35 Whelen will do with 250 gr bullets.

Both 338-06 and 35 Whelen will hit you with 30+ ft lbs of recoil in an 8 lb rifle when loaded to full potential. Which is almost exactly the same as 300 WM. I was able to get 200 gr Nosler Accubonds to 2800 fps in my 300 WSM. I never got much over 2600 fps out of 225's in my 338-06, at least not with acceptable accuracy. The 300 WSM/200 load has a little less energy at the muzzle,but the SD is about the same with both bullets so penetration is going to be about the same. And the 300 WSM quickly surpassed 338-06 down range in both trajectory and energy. With about the same recoil.

That said I don't have a single regret about owning those rifles. Had I not had 30-06 rifles sitting right in the middle a good argument could be made that a 270 or 280 along with a 338-06 makes for a good combo. Shoot light bullets in one and heavies in the other. My 30-06 will let me shoot anything from 125 -250 gr though and that made it harder for me to justify 280 or 338-06. But even though I don't own them the 280 and 338-06 were my favorites.

Then on the other hand we have folks out there killing elk at near 1/2 mile with 243's. Not that I advocate such things, but it does make you wonder if there is any real need for anything bigger than your 270.
 
LRDGCO said:
225 grs from the 338-06 will comfortably handle elk, moose, and the biggest brown bears.
Click to expand...
I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that .338", 225's were a good weight bullet for the "biggest brown bears"? And will comfortably handle them???

DM
 
jmr40 said:
Sometimes there is an an itch that you just have to scratch. Scratch it if you must.

I won't tell you not to do it, but can tell you what to expect. A few years ago I had bolt rifles in 280, 30-06, 300 WSM, 338-06, 35 Whelen and 308 all at the same time. They all worked, all were accurate, all had trajectories that were workable at any reasonable range, and all would kill anything in North America. I reached the point where I wanted to simplify my life and the 30-06 rifles had been around the longest and were the ones with the most sentimental attachment. I kept the 30-06, 308 and 300 WSM rifles and sent everything else down the road. I kept the 300 WSM for a year or 2 longer, but I eventually sold it too. And over time the 308 has even replaced 30-06 as my go-to rifle.

I can load 150 gr bullets to 3050 fps in 30-06 and do anything I could do with the 280 or a 270 with 130-140 gr bullets. With 200 gr bullets @ 2700 fps there isn't any real world difference between 30-06 and 338-06 with 225's. When the 30-06 is loaded with 220 gr bullets it'd do anything a 35 Whelen will do with 250 gr bullets.

Both 338-06 and 35 Whelen will hit you with 30+ ft lbs of recoil in an 8 lb rifle when loaded to full potential. Which is almost exactly the same as 300 WM. I was able to get 200 gr Nosler Accubonds to 2800 fps in my 300 WSM. I never got much over 2600 fps out of 225's in my 338-06, at least not with acceptable accuracy. The 300 WSM/200 load has a little less energy at the muzzle,but the SD is about the same with both bullets so penetration is going to be about the same. And the 300 WSM quickly surpassed 338-06 down range in both trajectory and energy. With about the same recoil.

That said I don't have a single regret about owning those rifles. Had I not had 30-06 rifles sitting right in the middle a good argument could be made that a 270 or 280 along with a 338-06 makes for a good combo. Shoot light bullets in one and heavies in the other. My 30-06 will let me shoot anything from 125 -250 gr though and that made it harder for me to justify 280 or 338-06. But even though I don't own them the 280 and 338-06 were my favorites.

Then on the other hand we have folks out there killing elk at near 1/2 mile with 243's. Not that I advocate such things, but it does make you wonder if there is any real need for anything bigger than your 270.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your insightful and lucid response.

And that's the thing - it's irrational.

I Know, at the core of my being, that a .270 Win./150 gr. NP (or 140 gr. TSX) will take anything in North America (and most African plains game), at any reasonable range, if I do my part. Solid.

Not counting .22 LR, smoke-poles, the M1 Garand, and an initial run w/ a bolt-action .30-06 - have been a one-gun hunter for the duration. M700/.270 Win., Mice-to-moose.

PPU for blasting, Federal factory NP/TC for convenience, got a liquidation deal on Pierce Precision 140 gr. TSX, and handload 150 gr. Speer Hot-Cor for load development and Seasonal tune-up ahead of handload NP hunting rounds.

And it works. Big hogs in the woods, swamp ghost Minnesota whitetail, and everything out West.

That's why the new M70 is also going to be chambered in .270 Win.

But then,

"Why not a .338-06?"

:D


Or, just leave the M700 as is.




GR
 
If you get another barrel made in 338-06, as long as you don’t blueprint the action in the process, you can swap back to 270win in about 30 minutes. Barrel changes aren’t tattoos or wedding vows.

The 338-06 is likely my favorite of the ‘06 family. I don’t care that objectively it has lower sectional density than the same weight bullet in 30cal which can be pushed just as fast; don’t care that, objectively, it recoils as much as 300win mag; don’t care that, objectively, a guy would get more out of a 338wm with the same bullets (or 338RCM, or 338-375Ruger, etc); don’t care that, objectively, it takes more work to make brass than 30-06 OR has a limited component supply chain for properly marked, ready-made brass.....

Subjectively, it’s a beautiful cartridge with authentic but unostentatious big game capabilities, which stands out among the milquetoast .30-06 and .270win. Maybe it’s an “old world notion,” but it’s a notion all the same.
 
Varminterror said:
If you get another barrel made in 338-06, as long as you don’t blueprint the action in the process, you can swap back to 270win in about 30 minutes. Barrel changes aren’t tattoos or wedding vows.

The 338-06 is likely my favorite of the ‘06 family. I don’t care that objectively it has lower sectional density than the same weight bullet in 30cal which can be pushed just as fast; don’t care that, objectively, it recoils as much as 300win mag; don’t care that, objectively, a guy would get more out of a 338wm with the same bullets (or 338RCM, or 338-375Ruger, etc); don’t care that, objectively, it takes more work to make brass than 30-06 OR has a limited component supply chain for properly marked, ready-made brass.....

Subjectively, it’s a beautiful cartridge with authentic but unostentatious big game capabilities, which stands out among the milquetoast .30-06 and .270win. Maybe it’s an “old world notion,” but it’s a notion all the same.
Click to expand...

Yep - an elegant old-world cartridge... with subtle power and mystique.

...like the samurai sword.

Almost a cult following of otherwise reasonable and educated people.

It sings.


But the process being considered is a rebore, not a rebarrel (stingy Scottish fingers), so there would be no going back.

$250 delivered - for my other Grail rifle, after the new M70.




GR
 
Garandimal said:
But the process being considered is a rebore, not a rebarrel (stingy Scottish fingers), so there would be no going back.
Click to expand...

Well... consider rebarreling instead of reboring. Seems to cost more in your case, but gives you more flexibility in the future too - which is worth something.
 
If you are being responsible with the money you have, your wife (if you’re married) is ok with it, no laws are being broken...go for it. Then let me come and shoot it...I’d get one too, but such a great deal came my way on the 338WM that I couldn’t pass it up and I never needed anything so large so when I had a chance a a trade for a 375 HH I made sure I had both way-overkill rifles...

Greg
 
IMG_4083.JPG IMG_4084.JPG

I wouldn't recommend anyone get a 338-06 unless they first like a 30-06 because a 338-06 is just a super 30-06. I have owned one for about 3 years, used it to take deer and hogs and I really like the cartridge. The second point is that you should use a familiar rifle because if you first don't like the rifle you won't like the cartridge. My rifle is a featherweight pre 64 Model 70 Winchester A-Square version that with scope and sling weighs 8 pounds 7 ounces. I have stuck to my original plan which was to use 180 grain bullets with a velocity between 2700 and 2800 fps. I selected the Nosler AccuBond because that was the only 180 grain bullet I could find. I tried several powders such as R 15, IMR 4064, R 16 and R 17 and I quickly found Reloader 17 to work really good. I can go up to 60 grains without any problems. I have no intent to shoot bullets heavier than 200 grains. Bottom line, I wanted a 338-06 for many years and I should have had one 30 years ago. I would have loved it in the mountains of Colorado. It really feels good when I shoot it but about 5 rounds is all I want at one time. The people who own the 338-06 always say it performs at a higher level than would be expected and I believe that to be true.
 
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