Can Someone Translate This Law?

[Ohio Rifleman]

(A) No person shall do any of the following:

(1) Sell any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(2) Subject to division (B) of this section, sell any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;

(3) Furnish any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age or, subject to division (B) of this section, furnish any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age, except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult;

(4) Sell or furnish a firearm to a person who is eighteen years of age or older if the seller or furnisher knows, or has reason to know, that the person is purchasing or receiving the firearm for the purpose of selling the firearm in violation of division (A)(1) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age or for the purpose of furnishing the firearm in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(5) Sell or furnish a handgun to a person who is twenty-one years of age or older if the seller or furnisher knows, or has reason to know, that the person is purchasing or receiving the handgun for the purpose of selling the handgun in violation of division (A)(2) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age or for the purpose of furnishing the handgun in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age;

(6) Purchase or attempt to purchase any firearm with the intent to sell the firearm in violation of division (A)(1) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age or with the intent to furnish the firearm in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under eighteen years of age;

(7) Purchase or attempt to purchase any handgun with the intent to sell the handgun in violation of division (A)(2) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age or with the intent to furnish the handgun in violation of division (A)(3) of this section to a person who is under twenty-one years of age.

(B) Divisions (A)(1) and (2) of this section do not apply to the sale or furnishing of a handgun to a person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age if the person eighteen years of age or older and under twenty-one years of age is a law enforcement officer who is properly appointed or employed as a law enforcement officer and has received firearms training approved by the Ohio peace officer training council or equivalent firearms training.

(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of improperly furnishing firearms to a minor, a felony of the fifth degree.

Effective Date: 03-31-1997

What I'm trying to get from all this legalese is an answer to this simple question: Can a common peasant (non LEO/Peace Officer) between 18 and 21 legally own/posess a handgun? I read the whole thing, but it's so confusing and convoluted. Here's where I got this, by the way:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.21

 

[geekWithA.45]

Here's how I translate it:

(a) Keine Person tut irgendwelche vom folgenden:

(1) verkaufen jede mögliche Feuerwaffe an eine Person, die unter achtzehn Jahren des Alters ist;

(2) abhängig von Abteilung (b) dieses Abschnitts, jede mögliche Pistole an eine Person verkaufen, die unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters ist;

(3) versorgen jede mögliche Feuerwaffe an eine Person, die unter achtzehn Jahren des Alters oder abhängig von Abteilung (b) dieses Abschnitts ist, versorgen irgendeine Pistole an eine Person, die unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters, außer der gesetzlichen Jagd ist, sporting, oder pädagogische Zwecke, einschließlich, aber begrenzt nicht auf, Anweisung in den Feuerwaffen oder in der Pistolesicherheit, Obacht, Behandlung oder Marksmanship unter der überwachung oder der Steuerung eines verantwortlichen Erwachsenen;

(4) verkaufen oder versorgen eine Feuerwaffe an eine Person, die achtzehn Jahre des Alters oder älter ist, wenn der Verkäufer oder das furnisher weiß, oder den Grund zu kennen hat, daß die Person ist, empfangend kaufend oder die Feuerwaffe mit dem Ziel das Verkaufen der Feuerwaffe in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (1) dieses Abschnitts zu einer Person, die unter achtzehn Jahren des Alters oder mit dem Ziel die Lieferung der Feuerwaffe in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (3) dieses Abschnitts zu einer Person ist, die unter achtzehn Jahren des Alters ist;

(5) verkaufen oder versorgen eine Pistole an eine Person, die einundzwanzig Jahre des Alters oder älter ist, wenn der Verkäufer oder das furnisher weiß, oder den Grund zu kennen hat, daß die Person ist, empfangend kaufend oder die Pistole mit dem Ziel das Verkaufen der Pistole in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (2) dieses Abschnitts zu einer Person, die unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters oder mit dem Ziel die Lieferung der Pistole in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (3) dieses Abschnitts zu einer Person ist, die unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters ist;

(6) kaufen oder versuchen, jede mögliche Feuerwaffe mit der Absicht zu kaufen, um die Feuerwaffe in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (1) dieses Abschnitts an eine Person zu verkaufen, die unter achtzehn Jahren des Alters oder mit der Absicht ist, zum der Feuerwaffe in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (3) dieses Abschnitts an eine Person zu versorgen, die unter achtzehn Jahren des Alters ist;

(7) kaufen oder versuchen, jede mögliche Pistole mit der Absicht zu kaufen, um die Pistole in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (2) dieses Abschnitts an eine Person zu verkaufen, die unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters oder mit der Absicht ist, zum der Pistole in der Verletzung von Abteilung (a) (3) dieses Abschnitts an eine Person zu versorgen, die unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters ist.

(b) Abteilungen (a) (1) und (2) dieses Abschnitts treffen nicht auf den Verkauf oder die Lieferung einer Pistole an eine Person achtzehn Jahre des Alters oder älter und unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters zu, wenn die Person achtzehn Jahre des Alters oder älter und unter einundzwanzig Jahren des Alters ein Gesetzdurchführungoffizier ist, der richtig als Gesetzdurchführungoffizier und hat empfangen die Feuerwaffeausbildung ernannt oder beschäftigt wird, die vom Ohio Friedensoffizier-Training Rat genehmigt werden oder die gleichwertige Feuerwaffeausbildung.

(c) Whoever verletzt diesen Abschnitt ist schuldig von unsachgemäß versorgenfeuerwaffen zu einem Minderjährigen, ein Kapitalverbrechen des fünften Grads.

Wirkungsvolles Datum: 03-31-1997

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Smart-aleck

Permit me to clarify: Could someone translate that from Legalese into plain English?

 

[brentn]

If you can't sell a handgun, it says "no person" might I add which includes business's, to a person under 21 then you cant buy one unless you are 21. You must be 21 or older to buy a handgun.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Strictly speaking, all that statute says is that it is illegal to sell or furnish a handgun to someone who is under 21, who is not a law enforcement officer with certified training. That statute says nothing about it being illegal for an 18-21yr old to possess a handgun. However, there may be another statute in Ohio law that addresses that issue. I would look at the rest of the criminal code for something that discusses possession.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Seriously, my (I AM NOT A LAWYER, and you need one) interpretation is that this section of code does not make it unlawful for someone 18-21 to posess a handgun.

It just makes it exceedingly difficult to obtain one legally.

No one can sell a handgun to an 18-21, and no one can "furnish" a handgun , except temporarilly for hunting/training/etc while under adult supervision, or if one is a LEO and has taken the safety course.

Who that leaves are fringe cases: people 18-21 who already legally posess a handgun and move in from out of state, people who inherit, people 18-21 who legally obtained a handgun before the law went into force, and were still under 21, and the like.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Looks like I'm SOL until April 3, 2008. Oh well. Stupid, stupid, stupid laws.

 

[CountGlockula]

"Absence makes the heart grow fonder".

 

[Cliff47]

The wait will make it all the sweeter. Try to remain calm (it makes everyone else wonder what you're up to).

 

[Blackbeard]

Sounds to me like an 18-yr-old can possess a handgun, but no one can sell or furish one to him. But (A)(3) says it's ok to furnish for certain purposes. So, if your dad gives you a .45 for educational purposes, wouldn't that be ok? Just tell them your training was 24x7 for 3 years.

 

[AZAndy]

When I was an 18-year old living in Ohio, I satisfied my pistol hunger by getting a black powder revolver. That would be perfectly legal for you to do, and you can even get 'em small enough to conceal. The gummint might not consider them firearms, but wait 'til you shoot one! Hoo boy.

Tons o' fun!

Andy

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I've thought about that, actually. The BP pistol, I mean. I've found places where you can order them through the mail, no FFL, no nothing. Maybe that would tide me over for the next 8 months...

 

[RNB65]

There is nothing in the above passage that would prevent someone 18-21 from owning or possessing a handgun. The passage is specifically related to selling a handgun.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

So, NOBODY can sell me a handgun? Non-FFL? Not even my own folks?

 

[RNB65]

It does sound like you can legally possess a handgun, but no one can sell you one if you're between 18 and 21 unless your a LEO. I suggest you try to locate a shooters association in your state and ask them. Also, send an e-mail to your local district attorney's office and ask them for a layman's explanation. I occasionally e-mail my DA's office with gun related questions and they've always been very prompt at providing answers.

The fact is that some states allow handgun sales to people between 18-21 and some don't. Virginia does but it sounds like Ohio doesn't.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I emailed the Ohio DA's office some time ago, and they said quote:

Thank you for contacting the Attorney General's Office regarding handgun ownership in Ohio. The Attorney General cannot issue opinions to individual citizens either within or from outside of Ohio, on hypothetical questions, issues committed to another department or branch of government, questions about the constitutionality of a statute, or issues currently in litigation.

However, I can provide some insight into the law as it pertains to your inquiry. This guidance is neither a formal nor informal opinion of Attorney General Petro; rather, it represents my understanding of prevailing law as applied to your inquiry and is intended to assist you. This information does not constitute legal advice.

Generally, Ohio law prohibits selling any firearm to a person under 18, or selling any handgun to a person under 21. These prohibitions are the same as in federal law.

Also, the section prohibits furnishing a firearm to a person under 18, except for lawful hunting or for purposes of instruction (a person 16 or over may hunt alone under section 1533.13 of the Revised Code). Instruction in firearms safety, care, handling, or marksmanship must be under either the supervision or control of a responsible adult. This does not necessarily require the actual presence of an adult, but does require that an adult exercise a reasonable amount of control to insure safety.

As used in RC § 2923.21, "furnish" requires some type of positive act to supply, provide or equip the minor with a firearm

Then it just regurgitates the law. If they want to make all these idiotic laws, why don't they at least give me a straight answer as to what they mean!?

And I thought Ohio was a free state! :banghead:

 

[RNB65]

In addition to BP, another option is to buy a good quality BB or pellet pistol. They're great for practicing pistol markmanship. If you can't hit the bullseye with a pellet gun you aren't going to be able to hit it with a 9mm either.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I've had some experience with handguns before, my dad's 9mm and a few others. I only really enjoyed shooting a .357 revolver.

 

[Geronimo45]

[Thou mayest not, lowly peons that you are:]
furnish any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age, except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult

Important clause is in bold. Questionable clause underlined. Questionable because it's not absolutely clear whether all this hunting, safety, education and whatnot must ALL occur under the supervision of an adult, or just marksmanship (shooting).
It seems that your folks could (in theory) give (furnish) you a handgun. You could not shoot that handgun without their supervision (or that of a 21+ of some sort). Also

You could probably email/call/whatever your state Attorney General, and see what he says on the subject. My interpretation (only marksmanship needs be supervised) is sheer optimism. Laws are not often optimistic.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

I did email my Attorney General, and they didn't tell me a darn thing.

 

[RNB65]

I did email my Attorney General, and they didn't tell me a darn thing.

You asked the wrong person. The AG isn't going to help a simple serf, he's too busy try to figure out how to get elected Governor. You need to contact your local District Attorney's office. They should be able to answer your questions, but I don't think you're going to like the answers they provide.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Maybe so. But I have to take a whack at it. I might be pleasantly surprised too. Maybe that moronic law has been changed.





God, I'm optimistic. What's wrong with me?

 

[Durruti]

When I was an 18-year old living in Ohio, I satisfied my pistol hunger by getting a black powder revolver. That would be perfectly legal for you to do, and you can even get 'em small enough to conceal.

IANAL and everything, but I wouldn't recommend that as legal. Ohio Revised Code says:

2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons.

(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person’s person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:

(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;

(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;

(3) A dangerous ordnance.

Under weapons definitions, it says:

2923.11 Weapons control definitions.

As used in sections 2923.11 to 2923.24 of the Revised Code:

(A) “Deadly weapon” means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.

My understanding of the plain English is you can't concealed carry any deadly weapon, which means anything that you consciously carry as a weapon. I think you'd have a heck of a time convincing a court that the concealed black powder pistol wasn't carried as a weapon.

You can certainly have one, but I wouldn't conceal it.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Who that leaves are fringe cases: people 18-21 who already legally posess a handgun and move in from out of state, people who inherit, people 18-21 who legally obtained a handgun before the law went into force, and were still under 21, and the like.

....and possibly, if allowed in Ohio law, make a handgun intended for personal use and not for sale.

 

[rust collector]

I am a lawyer, but you are not my client and of course I'm not familiar with Ohio law. Consequently, please do not consider this to be legal advice.

It seems, however, that there is some very useful language in A 3 that you may not be grasping, even though the assistant AG tried to point it out without sticking his neck out. This permits providing a handgun to someone younger than 21 for hunting, sporting and educational purposes. The ensuing language is permissive, not exclusive. Hunting, target shooting, and training, are to be under the supervision of an adult, but that means you have someone who is an adult (over 18, in most states) with you or get the approval of a responsible adult for those activities. Then, make sure all other firearms laws governing transport and the like are complied with.

Concealed carry? Not likely to fit under the above categories. Just about any other lawful firearms activity would seem to be OK, especially with consent of a responsible adult.

Keep in mind, however, that a. there may be other statutes dealing with these issues, b. this may not be the latest version of the applicable code, and c. there may be case law which fills in the gaps of the statutory language. Seems like the feds have restricted or prohibited possession of handguns by persons under 21, and you'd need to comply with those requirements as well. Training is the place to start in any event.