Can Virginia Tech do this?

[buck00]

Failure to comply may result in a student judicial referral and/or arrest...

Bingo, its "may" meaning if you make a huge scene and resisted their request to leave, you could be charged with trespass at that point.

Another thing to keep in mind, universities can ban you from campus. I knew of a guy (former student) who was permanently banned from setting foot on campus again- no football games, events, nothing.

So keep that in mind if you are a big football fan who goes to all the games.

 

[JohnnyGrey]

Most Unis are like this. I didn't carry as a student, but I did as an Alumnus. The risk of being expelled a few months from graduation wasn't worth it. However, after graduation, going back to the "Murduh" capital of the US means I'm going to carry regardless of their rules. If they ask me to leave, so be it.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

I guess I'm just confused as the concept of trespass on public property, as a tax paying member of the public.

 

[waterhouse]

No, they will ask you to leave and if you refuse THEN have you arrested.

Who will ask me to leave? From a legal perspective, who is the owner of the sidewalks on VT's campus? Are the campus grounds public property, or private?

 

[walking arsenal]

Define weapon.

Seems kind of arbitrary.

A sharpened pencil or a pen can be used as a weapon.

Heck, you could kill an elk with some of the flashlights surefire makes these days.

 

[jr45]

I guess I'm just confused as the concept of trespass on public property, as a tax paying member of the public.

VT is public. Virginia school restrictions only address K-12 and the Virginia Commonwealth University 8VAC90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC90-10-50. I will try to ask VDCL if they know the answer.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I believe that's his point. I too understand how you can trespass on private property, but not too sure about how it works with public property.

 

[jr45]

Response from VCDL:

It's a gray area. The Attorney General opined that they cannot have
a blanket gun ban for CHP holders. And they have little control over
guests carrying. As far as expelling students or firing faculty, they
currently seem to have that power (but it might be something that can
be fought successfully in court, perhaps).

On Apr 24, 2008, at 12:45 PM, *******@verizon.net wrote:

> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> This email is being sent from the 'VCDL Web Based E-Mail' tool.
> Originating IP: 65.117.187.25
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Is the following "Campus and Workplace Violence Prevention Policy"
> correct for VT? if so, is it legal?
>
> The university’s employees, students, and volunteers, or any visitor
> or other third party attending a sporting,
> entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or
> administrative office building, dining facility, or
> residence hall, are further prohibited from carrying, maintaining,
> or storing a firearm or weapon on any university
> facility, even if the owner has a valid permit, when it is not
> required by the individual’s job, or in accordance with
> the relevant University Policies for Student Life.
> Any such individual who is reported or discovered to possess a
> firearm or weapon on university property will be
> asked to remove it immediately. Failure to comply may result in a
> student judicial referral and/or arrest, or an
> employee disciplinary action and/or arrest.

 

[buck00]

Who will ask me to leave? From a legal perspective, who is the owner of the sidewalks on VT's campus? Are the campus grounds public property, or private?

You raise a good point and this should be clarified. The sidewalk itself (the ones that run along public roads through campus) are usually public property. At my college all the religious nuts and various non-student protestors could stand there and preach, protest, or taunt students, etc (think of the "God Loves IEDs" group) legally. If they took one step off the side walk towards the university buildings, they could be asked to leave and/or eventually cited for tresspass.

(this isn't the sidewalks that cut through campus property)

Note- there are some colleges that own the roads that go through campus. There are some schools that have public roads that snake through campus but the university only owns the property on either side, etc. This is a huge difference.

So campus grounds (buildings, the "mall", dorms) are university property (regardless if the school is "public or private") and therefore while on them you are subject to university rules (including CCW). This also applies to football stadiums and parking lots.

 

[JohnBT]

The Commonwealth bought the land for VA TECH in 1872 with federal funds from the land grant program for colleges. As far as I know the state still owns the entire 2600 acres of the main campus. (I suppose they could have mortgaged it, but I don't think so.)

I know when you get a parking ticket on one of the campus roads or streets you pay the school, not Montgomery County or the adjoining Town of Blacksburg.

"Parking fines may be paid by cash or check only. You can:

Pay in person at Parking Services, either at 455 Tech Center Drive or 130 Student Services Building."

John
Class of '72

 

[trinydex]

i think that's just like a bulliten reminding people of the current policy. i'm sure they never allowed that as most campuses don't allow storage of firearms in dormitories etc.

same thing happens when there's a rape etc. they just send out bullitens.

 

[RNB65]

I've never heard of a single case of anyone actually being charged with trespassing due to a weapons violation on a college campus in VA. That doesn't mean that it hasn't happened or can't happen.

Even if the trespassing charge is never prosecuted or tossed by the judge, you're going to be arrested by the campus police, your firearm will be confiscated, and you're going to have to hire a defense attorney to sort it all out. In the end, you may well prevail but it's going to cost you a considerable amount of time and $$$.
-

 

[brickeyee]

"The Code of VA permits state U's to develop their own policies on what is permitted on their campuses."

They law makes grants no such permission.

The Universities have taken it upon themselves to try and enforce their policies against non-students.

They CAN enforce the policy against students and employees.

 

[greenled]

The State of Oregon has similar wording for their campus rules (and they make the same claim about being able to make their own "laws"). However, I'm told campus rules aren't above State law so, in theory, they aren't enforceable.

The thing is, until somebody is caught carrying, asked to leave, refuses, gets arrested, subsequently challenges the campus rules in Court, and wins, things won't change. AFAIK, nobody wants to be the "crash dummy" on this one.

In the one case I know of (a student), the CCW holder simply left campus property after being asked to do so by police. No charges or disciplinary actions were filed.

 

[Bobo]

IANAL, but in my OPINION...

It depends if Virginia Tech is legally PRIVATE or PUBLIC property. I don't know the answer to this.

The premption law in Virginia doesn't allow PUBLIC facilities to overide the laws of the state. The state allows concealed carry in most places.
There are some exceptions that are written into state law as to where guns can be legally carried:
PLACES WHERE CARRYING IS PROHIBITED:
- Federal Property including National Parks (concealed w/CHP and hunting exempted in National Forests).
- Courthouses (§18.2-283.1).
- General Assembly Building & Property(open or concealed carry OK for CHP holders only).
- Virginia Commonwealth University (8VAC90-10-50).
- Detention Facilities (§15.2-915).
- Places of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held “without good and sufficient reason” (§18.2-283).
- Restaurants & clubs serving alcohol for on premises consumption (concealed carry is prohibited, open carry IS NOT prohibited, owner & employees are exempted) (§18.2-308.J3).
- Air carrier airport terminal buildings (§18.2-287.01).
- K-12 school property (unless unloaded and in closed container). CHP holders may possesss a loaded concealed handgun while in a vehicle (§18.2-308.1).
- K-12 school buses (§18.2-308.1).
- Property used exclusively for K-12 school sponsored functions (§18.2-308.1).
- Private property when prohibited by owner (§18.2-308.O)

The owners of PRIVATE property CAN restrict guns:
§ 18.82.380.O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

So, in my opinion (IANAL), it comes down to whether VT is legally a PUBLIC or PRIVATE entity.
PUBLIC - they can't legally stop you from carrying concealed.
PRIVATE - they can!