Can you convince me otherwise?

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zstephens13

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I am buy a new handgun very soon. I have had my heart set on Kimber's Pro Carry II for quite a while now. Since reading on this forum I have seen alot of Kimber-hate. I don't want a non-reliable pistol to protect my life.

Can you pistol experts help me?

Here are my requirements:
1911 style
Light-preferably under 28 ounces
4 in barrel would be nice, but I'm not set on that
Out of the box reliability (Kimber if you have experienced that)
Budget- $1000

I'm torn and definitely don't want to waste my money.

Suggestions?
 
My Kimber Compact Aluminum Stainless (4") has been utterly reliable. It's my current CCW piece.

But I'd look at Springfield or Para or S&W in a heartbeat.

I also would try to get a Kimber that does NOT have the "II" designation, as the cuts made for that feature collect dirt that's hard to clean out. Besides, it's an unnecessary feature.
 
Doesn't the II designation just mean that something has been done with the firing pin spring to prevent accidental discharges when the pistol is dropped? Or am i miss understanding something. which part gets dirty?
 
What do you mean by "1911-style." You can get a SIG P220SAO for about $800. This pistol is a single-action-only, like the 1911. It has an ambi downswept frame-mounted safety, like the 1911. It fires from a single column 8 round detachable magazine, like the 1911. It has a 4" barrel, as requested, and with its aluminum alloy frame is relatively light as well. Mine came with night sights and also has a picitanny rail on the dustcover for the use of a white light, should you take the pistol out of its holster in the evenings and set it in the bed stand for home defense. I have an Insight M3X for mine. Reliable, accurate, within your price range, with the features you seem to be set on, it deserves a look.

If you're dead set on a 1911 (which, again, how do we define 1911 with all the different varients and mods these days, but I digress), I would look into the Dan Wessons. I like the Series 70 without the firing pin safety, which eliminates pretty much all of the Kimbers from my consideration instantly, with the exception of their Warrior, which I've always kind of had a crush on since the moment I saw it.
 
I had a Pro Carry II. Mine was reliable, I had one FTRB within the first 50 rounds and after that it ran 100%. Now, what I didn't like about it....

For starters, I didn't like the 4" bull barrel that requires you to use the little bent metal pin or a paper clip to field strip the pistol for cleaning. I don't like having to use tools to disassemble a gun just for cleaning.

I also don't like the Swartz safety they use. My issue with it is that you have to be careful not to depress the grip safety when removing or more difficultly installing the slide. If you do, you risk shearing off the safety's piston, rendering the gun inoperable. Made it more of a challenge to reassemble than my other 1911s.

For about the same money, I'd strongly recommend getting a Colt Commander.
 
If you absolutely have to have a 1911, the ones I've seen that run well in USPSA or IDPA are the following:

Wilson, S&W, Sig, and to a lesser extent the Springfield and RRA (upper end pistols). Kimber has become a running joke: "Oh, wow--Jim got 2 rounds off IN A ROW--quick, make a wish!", etc.

The single worst stage I've ever seen shot was shot by a guy with a new Kimber officers model using McCormick mags and 165 grain lead SWCs. It was a 24 round stage and he had to have 30 live rounds on the ground. It was a gunsmith's dream...<g>

Dan
 
For the money you are wanting to spend I'd recommend a Springfield "Loaded" but it won't meet your weight requirement.
 
My Ultra Carry II was reliable but the finish came off really easy. Other shooting buddies with Kimbers have had lots of feeding problems. YMMV
 
Here's the deal. Cheap guns will always be hated on and talked about by guys who own expensive ones and expensive guns will be hated on and talked about by people who can't afford them. Kimber has a reputation of being a little pricey, (not really though, considering what 1911s are bringing these days) so a lot of people don't like them. I know two guys who have them and they swear by them. My brother swears by Glock, because that's what he has. People generally think that what they have is the best and anyone who shoots anything else has sawdust for brains. Most of us are guilty of giving this impression at one time or another. Bottom line. If you want it, buy it.
 
^^I agree. I think there is a lot of hate from people who paid a lot more for custom 1911s, and then Kimber came in with the semi-custom market and turned them on their heads. Kimber makes several TIMES more 1911s than the next manufacturer, you are going to hear about more incidents of problems, this does not mean there is a higher RATE of problems.

My Kimber Custom II is the best handgun I have ever owned, and I use it for everything. I would carry it to war tomorrow if I were allowed to. Several of my friends and family members have switched to them after shooting mine, and I have not heard of any significant problems. I have gone to rental ranges and shot the expensive guns. They are great, maybe even better, but I can't see why they're priced at three times as much as my Kimber.

Like others have suggested, look around a little. Go to a rental range where you can shoot comparable guns.
 
^^^^ I also agree...and, the LGS I usually go to sells the Kimber Custom II for $679.99 which I think is very reasonable and close enough to the "cheap guns" to take most of them out of the running for a reasonably priced 1911.
 
People generally think that what they have is the best and anyone who shoots anything else has sawdust for brains.
Click to expand...

I think that's because most guns will run for most guys most of the time. You'll probably be just fine with that Kimber.
 
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Most individuals form their opinions on the relative reliability of any given gun based on their experience. People who shoot 10k rounds a year through a gun may have an entirely different opinion than someone who only shoots 250 rds a year through the same gun.
 
The Kimber will probably be just fine.

However, another suggestion would be the S&W PD or Gunsite edition. Both are lightweight framed Commander size pistols (4 1/4" barrels). S&W has a very good reputation for build quality and a lifetime warranty.

S&W does employ a firing pin safety much like the Kimber design, if you are trying to avoid those. I don't seem them as a problem.
 
I'm not trying to step on any toes but I just don't get the idea that a 1911 is the ideal CC gun. It's heavy, low on capacity, and the accuracy isn't really any better than some of the more modern designs.

I'm not saying it's not a great gun because for 100 years it's more than proven itself. I use to own one and it was a good shooting pistol, but I believe there are better choices for CCing.
 
I just picked up a Kimber Ultra Carry II this morning. We'd been shooting a rental (so, a _well_ broken in gun) for a couple of weeks at our local range and my better half decided that it had to be our next BANG! toy. The range gun is an AWESOME shooter... I was blown away. We enjoyed shooting it more than the Pro Carry or the full size.

Anyway, the real point of me bringing this up is what happened at the store this morning.

There was one in the case, and I asked to see it... Definitely NIB, but I asked anyway. "So, is this NIB, one mag?", the store owner must have mis-heard me, 'cause he told the counter-folk to "get him one from the back".

When that one came out, I looked it over and felt that it was _really_ tight - not just "new" tight. That feeling continued when I went to drop the mag out of the gun. Hit the button and.. nothing. I held the button and pulled on the mag - it wouldn't come out. The counter-folk tried.. nope. And here's where it got interesting for me. The comment that was now passed around the owner and the two counter-folks was "Hey, looks like we have another Kimber that the mag won't come out of"; "Really? Oh well"; "Yeah, I think that's the 3rd one out of this batch".

It was clear they weren't talking about JUST the Ultra Carry - they have a LOT of new Kimbers in the case.

They brought out another UC, I ran through it and it was fine. Tight as expected, but not super-tight.

I thought for half-a-beat about walking away from the sale considering the casualness of the comments about the mag release, but didn't. This can happen with any gun from any manufacturer, and I'm looking forward to shooting the heck out of this thing. :)
 
Many 1911 clones need to be tuned to run reliably, if you intend to carry this as a weapon then I suggest you shoot the bugs out of it. Kimber makes excellent pistols, but as like most mass produced products there are the occasional problems. Trigger pull force or the lack of it may prove to be a liability, as attorneys tend to argue that discharge was accidental vs intentional. This is why I chose to carry a DA/SA service pistol, either a SIG 229 or a CZ PCR. No argument for accidental discharge with a long 8lb DA trigger pull. I do so love the 3.5lb trigger pull of a good custom 1911, just not on the street.
 
I have several Ultra and Pro size Kimbers, and they have all been good guns; however, after getting into Dan Wessons there will be no more Kimbers in my future. I didn't care at first, but now can't stand the plastic MSH and the MIM parts. It's not that there is anything wrong with them from a functional perspective, it's just that they are cheap and I feel the gun is overpriced for what you get.

I would suggest you find a Dan Wesson CCO to handle. They are great CCW pieces, though they are a little more pricey at around $1200.

Have fun with your search.
 
I carried one long enough to wear the finish off the frame, slide was stainless. It never failed me once. If you want a 1911 style gun for daily carry, you could not do better than this one.

Where is mine now? Refinished and sitting in my holster as I sit here typing this.
 
I have a stainless Springfield Champion Loaded which I bought used and am planning on using as a carry gun (it's very accurate). It's a bit heavy if you're planning on a lot of carry, though (I'm not). Lots of good thoughts already, but have you looked at the Springfield EMP? You didn't mention the caliber of interest, but I like the .40 a lot...you only get 8+1 in the EMP but it's a really nice, slim, easily concealable pistol and in your price range I think. Just a thought.
 
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