Can you cut-down a lever rifle, what's a good caliber

[Lucky]

What's a good caliber for one of these? http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/bushwacker.html

These guys are making them in pretty hefty packages, but I've got a .30-30 and I wonder if maybe it could be cut down.

So #1 can you cut down the barrel and magazine of a lever-rifle and how involved is it. And #2 how would .30-30 perform as such? Would it be too uncomfortable, and if so what if one downloaded the cartridges with powder more appropriate for that barrel length.

P.S. What would happen if you used pistol powder to achieve the same velocity you got with rifle powder from the short barrel?

 

[Cosmoline]

Well it's Class III stateside, and I don't know how your government over there feels about such matters. I think WildAlaska is making them in more potent chamberings than .30-30. But in any case, they're more of a novelty than anything else. If you want a short .30-30, I'd suggest cruising around for a Marlin Spikehorn. It's 16" barrel is about as short as you'd ever want a .30-30, laws or no.

What would happen if you used pistol powder to achieve the same velocity you got with rifle powder from the short barrel?

If you did it with a .30-30, you'd probably blow it up. The cartridge for that work would be a .454 Casull or similar straight walled super magnum. Puma makes a nice beefed up 92 for exactly that purpose.

 

[Lucky]

rgr, thanks.

 

[pcf]

http://www.brockmansrifles.com/

Brockman cut down a 336 to 16" for me. Excellent work and value. Current price is $95 and I'd be willing to pay $40-50 just for the recessed crown work.

Here's what's involved
Cut and recrown barrel
Cut magazine tube
Relocate magazine cap and barrel band
Remount front sight

 

[Jim March]

There's at least one guy out there got ahold of a batch of previously unfinished Winchester recievers and since he's a licensed handgun manufacturer, built them up as perfectly legal, ordinary handguns. 44Mag and 357mag mostly. He wants a lot for 'em, $1,500 or so, but there's zero extra paperwork.

More: if you wanted to you could get one converted elsewhere to takedown, have a second (longer) barrel set up, and get ahold of a standard stock. You could then legally switch it from handgun to rifle and back, so long as you swapped everything. In other words, a combination with short stock and long barrel would be illegal unless it met the 26" overall length, while a short barrel and long stock would always be NFA controlled.

 

[heron]

I'd rather have a revolver. I think these things are an invention of Hollywood.

 

[Avenger29]

Now remember, he is in Canada.

I prefer a full sized stock, so the way I'd go is with a takedown rifle, with the barrel shortened as much as possible. A lever-action rifle is already pretty short, anyway, even with a 20 inch barrel.

 

[Sunray]

Those are prohibited in Canada. The OAL is less than 26". You CANNOT make one either.

 

[Lucky]

Jim March that's probably the way to get around US export regulations if I can't get one custom made and try to order the Alaskan one. It's easier to move a rifle than a pistol, and aiui hard to get US to export a SBR.

PCF that sounds spot on. It's no problem shipping barrels back and forth, and gunsmiths near me are so swamped your looking at months and months.

Cosmo one wouldn't keep using 3031 would they? Suppose the barrel was 10" or something, wouldn't one use a faster powder?

Heron like Avenger said it's a special situation. You need a special permit to carry a pistol, and that's only granted for remote wilderness and to prospectors and trappers. So the following pic shows our now legal substitute (actually it's a better substitute) that can be carried for protection. http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/Smallbushwacker1.jpg


Pffft Sunray get with da times mon.

Our system is pretty flawed, as we give bureaucrats extreme powers to simply declare what is legal or not with the stroke of a pen. But recently it worked out and a cool guy with the RCMP used his pen to write that the law says it's wrong to make a gun shorter than 660mm by folding or telescoping or sawing it down. But... putting a pistol grip on it is different and thus non-restricted guns that are made small with pistol grips are fine. It's largely due to the Dlask company, who are now putting out 8" 870's.

Anyway so while it would be wrong to take a saw to a rifle and reduce it, if it's manufactured short that's fine. So the way I'm seeing it, if you take your barrel and have it professionally remanufactured, have at 'er. Then if you buy a pistol grip conversion, go ahead and put it on, have at 'er. And there are FRT#s for the shotguns already, they're 100% legal, no disputing it at all. So if anyone questions you you just show them the RCMP letter and that's all there is to be said about it.

I think that if it were a semi-auto then you wouldn't be able to have the barrel re-manufactured below 18.5" without notifying the CFC of the change, but I'm pretty sure there are no such regulations involving lever guns.

But I'm still in the planning stages here, so please do criticize.

 

[ftierson]

What about a Winchester M94AE Trapper in .30-30 Win...

It starts out with a 16 inch barrel...

Forrest

 

[Sunray]

"...get with da times mon..." Grasshopper, ALL firearms under 26" OAL are PROHIBITED under the Criminal Code of Canada. Go here. http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/prohibited_e.asp
Dlask applied for and got a manufacturing licence, after months of negotiations, for their silly 8.5" 870(nothing on Earth is more useless than a shotgun with no stock). That doesn't mean YOU can now have a prohibited firearm made out of your lever action. It's illegal to manufacture a prohibited firearm. No smithy would touch what you want to have done because of that.
Nor can you buy one of those Bushwacker's Stateside as it's a Class 3 firearm(same as a machinegun). U.S. export permits that require a Canadian import permit to get aside. Nor can you send your rifle to a Stateside smithy. You cannot import a prohibited firearm by Canadian law either.
The RCMP has no jurisdiction nor authority to make any kind of law. All they did was approve Dlask's application for their manufacturing licence. There has been no change to the Criminal Code as a result of this licence being issued.

 

[Cosmoline]

Cosmo one wouldn't keep using 3031 would they? Suppose the barrel was 10" or something, wouldn't one use a faster powder?

Sure, there are loads for the 30-30 using Unique and 2400, but only in small amounts for slow hardcast slugs or wee little plinker rounds. If you crank up those powders you'll have a grenade in that round. The effectiveness of such loads within the acceptable pressure limits is pretty limited. Though they should lower the blast and flash in a shorter barrel. FPS will be laughable. It's the wrong tools for the wrong job. If you want a hard-hitting short barreled carbine, you need to switch over to the handgun cartridges designed to burn fast powders safely.

Remember, real Alaskan bushwhacker rifles look like hell and have patches of tape on them. Nobody but a Cheechako or an Anchorage lawyer would take one of those fancy Wild West leverguns afield.

 

[Lucky]

My 1894 was $250, but Sunray's giving me pause and it might be better to get new manufacture. Though I'm quite sure, it's best to be 100%. It's legal boredom, but aiui you can do anything to a lever-rifle barrel as long as the OAL is 660mm or more. So cutting one down somewhat should be OK, and then putting a pistol grip would be a legal modification, so long as you could show that with the full stock it's still 660mm+.

But the totality suggests that a strong pistol caliber would be better, which would probably mean a new receiver and new barrel both.

Good news Sunray, you can order lever-gun receivers from the US without problem, and you can also order barrels of any length from the US without problem. If you receive them in 2 separate packages it's fine and dandy.

Here is letter from CFC / RCMP:
Dear xxxxxxxxx,
Thank you for your telephone call today with regard to the legal classification of the Remington 870 shotgun and the MCS system, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx. Short barreled pump action shotguns with folding stocks are controlled within the Criminal Code of Canada, and it specifically details that the firearm is reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by means of folding, telescoping or otherwise. The otherwise does not take into consideration replacement with commercially available stocks such as a pistol grip stocks. Thus it is very legal and does not change the class of a non semi automatic firearm if you put a manufactured short barrel and pistol grip on the gun.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I trust this response has met your needs, please feel free to call if I can be of any further assistance.
Regards,
Xxxxxxxxx
Manager
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Canada Firearms Centre | Centre des armes à feu Canada
Royal Canadian Mounted Police | Gendarmerie royale du Canada

FRT Numbers:
Remington 870 Police magnum 8.5” (216mm) barrel
No. 122742-11

Remington 870 Express 8.5” (216mm) barrel
No. 2058-132

 

[Outlaws]

The biggest problem with choosing the 30-30 in a rifle as short as a couple of those is you will probably only have two rounds in the tube. Can you say useless?

A .357 would still be fun.

 

[chad1043]

I cut my 30-30 down to a little longer than 16. It is a peach of a rifle. I'm working on a custom stock for it right now. It is quite nice to handle.. I can load 4-5 in the shortened tube. I don't think I have ever needed more than two rounds at a time for hunting. If you are going to use for self-defense, there are a lot more options that are better suited for that enviroment. An 870 comes to mind...

Chad

 

[Prince Yamato]

Of course, if he has a prohibited-class liscence, he can basically get whatever he wants...

 

[Lucky]

Chad I got a 14" 870 and a folding stock on order, but it's going to be on a sling. I was thinking that jogging I'd rather have something solid, not folding, even shorter, and in a holster device even something resembling a camelback.

 

[Radagast]

http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Marlin336CS.htm

 

[chad1043]

I would suggest a .22 semi-auto pistol. Light, and will stop basically anything you will come up against while you are running. I know it doesn't have the stopping power of a 30-30 or another rifle caliber, but it will ruin anyone's day real fast. I will also stop any small animal. But it is your dollar, you go with what you feel is gonna suit your purpose.

Chad