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Can you legally buy handguns at tag sales in some states?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by orpington, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. orpington

    orpington Member

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    A friend is visiting from Florida and he told me he has been told that state law trumps Federal law and you can cash and carry a handgun from a tag sale there. If this is so, then there are such loopholes. Otherwise, in my experience, in states I've lived in, want to buy a handgun, an FFL is involved. This is why I cannot understand why such a big deal is made about the gun show loophole by politicians as this is limited to rifle and shotgun sales between private individuals only.
     
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I think Florida has free trade, not exactly state law "trumping" federal.
    One Florida adult resident may buy a handgun from another Florida resident without FFL documentation.
     
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  3. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    In Georgia, If it is a business doing the sale it has to go through a FFL, if it is a family doing the sale it would be person to person.
     
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  4. George P

    George P Member

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    Most "free states" have no restrictions when residents sell to one another. I have bought and sold guns at yard sales. flea markets, and from local newspaper ads
     
  5. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Nothing in Federal law limits private sales between two residents of the same state to long guns. It's perfectly legal in most states, including Florida, by both Federal and state law for two residents of that state to sell each other handguns without an FFL being involved. The law does not change if that sale happens at a gun show or in the Arby's parking lot.
     
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  6. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    But to answer the question in the title of the OP succinctly, yes, in some (most, actually) states you can.
     
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  7. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Federal law does not regulate INTRAstate transfers between non-prohibited, non-licensed persons. You can't transfer possession across state lines without going through an FFL, but if you are both residents of the same state there's no problem.

    The 1968 GCA which implemented most of the gun purchase restrictions we live with today was carefully set up to be constitutional. That is, it only regulated sales which clearly related to interstate commerce since the Federal government has jurisdiction over interstate commerce. So new gun sales and interstate transfers were regulated, but intrastate transfers between non-FFLs are really not addressed in Federal law unless the recipient is a prohibited person.

    STATE laws may impose some additional restrictions, but that's kind of unusual. <<Edit--apparently not so unusual anymore. See post #10 on the thread.>>
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  8. orpington

    orpington Member

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    What states are the free states that allow this and/or which states do not allow this? I've lived in 3 states and assumed you buy a post 1898 pistol or revolver, an FFL must be involved.

    Never mind if that's actually constitutional or not.
     
  9. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

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    However, buying a gun at a Florida tag sale while not being a resident of Florida will have its issues. In Ohio, I don't need an FFL unless it is shipped to me or unless I'm buying from an FFL. I can buy from a private citizen if I want, but they cannot knowingly sell to a prohibited person or non-resident.
     
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  10. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    The list of states that require the use of a FFL (*or other background check/permit) for private party handgun sales has grown over the past couple years. It's almost 50% of the states now.

    CA, CO, CT, DE, DC, *HI, *IL, *IA, MD, MA, *MI, *NE, *NV, NJ, NM, NY, *NC, OR, PA, RI, VT, WA
     
  11. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    I had to use an internet search to find out what a tag sale is, but state law does not trump state law. Period. I would never again trust statements on legal matters from a person who claimed that.
    U.S. Const., Art. IV, (emphasis supplied)

    With that said, wherever Congress or the U.S. Constitution are silent on a matter, State law governs. JohnKSa correctly notes the basic contours of intra- and interstate transfers.
     
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  12. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    A good thing to keep in mind is that when someone says that "they have been told" something about firearms law, it's very common for whatever they have been told to be complete BS. An incredible amount of misinformation about gun laws gets spread around at gun shops, ranges and internet forums regularly. In some cases it's almost standard procedure. If they can't (or won't) provide a reliable source for the info, it's almost always incorrect.
     
  13. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    No state law "trumps Federal law."

    Florida still permits private-party firearms transfers/sales between state residents without the use of a Federal licensee or a BGC.

    Both Federal and State law prohibit the sale/transfer of a firearm to a person whom the seller/transferror reasonably believes or suspects is prohibited by law from being in possession of a firearm.
     
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  14. orpington

    orpington Member

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    Okay, so this is the "gun show loophole" politicians regularly discuss??? I was not aware such a thing existed.
     
  15. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    That's what it's often called, even though that's not very accurate. Sales at gun shows are no different than anywhere else. In my state, I can legally buy a handgun from a resident of the same state with no background check or record of any kind. We can complete that transaction at a gun show, in a Walmart parking lot, at our home, or anywhere else where we both have a legal right to be present with firearms. If I want to buy a firearm from an FFL, I must complete a NICS check, (or have a CHL) and fill out a Form 4473. We can complete that transaction at a gun show, at his shop, at his home, or anywhere else we both have the legal right to be with firearms.
     
  16. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    It's not a "loophole". The 1993 Brady Act, which established background checks for purchases from licensed firearm dealers, has no provision whatsoever to restrict private sales.

    If congress had felt the need to include private sales, they would have. They didn't. Private sales of firearms without background checks are legal at the Federal level, and not just because of a technicality.
     
  17. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    No, the GSL doesn't actually exist, as others have pointed out. It's a feature, not a bug. Antigun politicians often claim that "you can buy a gun at a gun show without a background check," but that's not really accurate. You can buy a gun at a gun show without a background check, provided that you're buying in a private (non-FFL) sale. You can do that same at any other place that you might meet the seller, assuming that State law doesn't dictate otherwise.
     
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  18. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

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    Just to slide-step a bit.....
    In PA, handgun transfers outside of blood relatives must be via an FFL. I have always understood that I can buy a C&R-eligible handgun, at perhaps a yard sale, via my C&R/FFL, to legally transfer it to myself face-to-face.
    Correct?
     
  19. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    In Indiana if you can LEGALLY buy a gun, what you call the sale doesn't matter unless you are a licensed gun seller.

    If you can not legally buy a gun, just the same, you can not legally buy a gun. But criminals already know that...
     
  20. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Kinda depends how you're defining "loophole". If by "loophole" you mean that the legislators screwed up and forgot to close a gap in the legislation, then no, it doesn't exist. If by "loophole" (and this is the one that I think most people are thinking of) you mean a method or procedure by which a person (potentially even a prohibited person) can obtain a firearm without background check or record of the sale, then it certainly does exist.
     
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  21. George P

    George P Member

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    It doesn't, the GSL is a media-hyped bs statement
     
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  22. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    While you're generally correct about what the term "loophole" means, I have to disagree. The specific term at issue here is "gun show loophole," so the question becomes "what's special about a gun show that permits the existence of this (so-called) loophole?" The answer is "nothing." Gun sales work exactly the same way at a gun show as they do everywhere else. FFLs must do a NICS check on firearms sales. Individuals do not (by federal law).
     
  23. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Certainly. As myself and multiple others have pointed out in this thread, the "loophole" has nothing to do with gun shows specifically. It could more accurately be referred to as a "private sale loophole" or something similar. Gun shows just receive a lot of attention for it because they're a popular place for people to take advantage of that "loophole".
     
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  24. George P

    George P Member

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    No "private sale loophole" either..Folks place ads all the time to sell personal items they no longer want or need. A FTF sale made in good faith is not a loophole.. We need to stop using the vernacular that the antis want ingrained in everyone's head.
     
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  25. armedwalleye

    armedwalleye Member

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    It doesn't. It's a back door way to try to convince people that gun shows are a hotbed of illegal activity.

    What they're referring to is a two private party sale, and, in states where it's legal, it's legal, whether they meet by accident or on purpose, either at a gun show, by a newspaper ad, or by Armslist.
    In states where two private party sales are illegal without the efforts of an FFL to paperwork the exchange, the sale at a gunshow would still be illegal.
     
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