Can you use LARGE RIFLE NATO PRIMERS 500 S&W

[C4AJ]

This is probably dumb but I'm new to hand loading so figured I would get some advice and recipes for down the road anyways. I just bought my self a 500 S%W 8 3/8 barrel. I have bullets, powder but no primers unless I can use cci 350 large pistol primers.

Just been curious If they could work because I can find them but not the ones that I Turley need

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Large Rifle Primers are "taller" than Large Pistol Primers and might not fit the primer pocket in a pistol cartridge case.

 

[AJC1]

The case calls for large rifle.... I would not even consider trying large pistol
There is apparently different cases. Use the correct primer. They are physically different unlike any of the small primers.

 

[iShoot17]

This is probably dumb but I'm new to hand loading so figured I would get some advice and recipes for down the road anyways. I just bought my self a 500 S%W 8 3/8 barrel. I have bullets, powder but no primers unless I can use cci 350 large pistol primers.

Just been curious If they could work because I can find them but not the ones that I Turley need

What specific primer can you get? Also - what cases and what powder? The thing that immediately comes to mind about NATO primers is the cup thickness / hardness. They are designed to prevent slamfires in various semi-autos and meet mil-spec requirements meaning they have a bit more heft to them compared to standard LRM primers. (They are also considered ‘magnum’ to my understanding.)

Personally - I’d be looking for a different primer, but also know the times we are in (maybe you could do some trading?). Would NATO primers be ideal for the 500 in a revolver? Not really. Could they work? If your revolver can reliably ignite them - and you use published data - I don’t see why not. Reminder: start low and work up.

Large Rifle Primers are "taller" than Large Pistol Primers and might not fit the primer pocket in a pistol cartridge case.

The 500S&W was originally designed to be used with a large pistol primer, but that design was changed in 2003. S&W and Cor-bon changed the design to now include the use of a large rifle primer. (https://www.starlinebrass.com/500-sw-mag-brass)

Unless the OP managed to find nearly 20 year old+ brass, he should be using Large Rifle or Large Rifle Magnum primers (based on published load data for his powder/bullet combo).

OP: obviously - check your brass to ensure you’re using the correct primer size.

 

[MEHavey]

"...can use cci 350 large pistol primers ?

No. Even if the firing pin can accommodate reaching further into case's rifle primer pocket depth, you will experience pierced primers at the 500's operating pressure of 60,000psi
(ask me how I know)

You CAN use large rifle NATO primers, since the 500's hammer has plenty of heft.


.

 

[C4AJ]

What specific primer can you get? Also - what cases and what powder? The thing that immediately comes to mind about NATO primers is the cup thickness / hardness. They are designed to prevent slamfires in various semi-autos and meet mil-spec requirements meaning they have a bit more heft to them compared to standard LRM primers. (They are also considered ‘magnum’ to my understanding.)

Personally - I’d be looking for a different primer, but also know the times we are in (maybe you could do some trading?). Would NATO primers be ideal for the 500 in a revolver? Not really. Could they work? If your revolver can reliably ignite them - and you use published data - I don’t see why not. Reminder: start low and work up.




The 500S&W was originally designed to be used with a large pistol primer, but that design was changed in 2003. S&W and Cor-bon changed the design to now include the use of a large rifle primer. (https://www.starlinebrass.com/500-sw-mag-brass)

Unless the OP managed to find nearly 20 year old+ brass, he should be using Large Rifle or Large Rifle Magnum primers (based on published load data for his powder/bullet combo).

OP: obviously - check your brass to ensure you’re using the correct primer size.

I'm going to acquire mixed brass from a website I visit, and I'm going to use h110 powder and a berrys 300 grain projectile.

Since I've been hand loading for my degale, this is what I have on hand right now.

H110 and berries should get along OK, so I'm just going to undercharge it and work my way up.

I figured larger pistol primers wouldn't work because, as you mentioned, they haven't been the industry standard in a long time, but I was curious

Now, primers are far and few in my area, but I constantly see 7.62 NATO primers on the shelves and believe that since they're always there, they probably aren't used very often, but I figured I would ask.

 

[C4AJ]

No. Even if the firing pin can accommodate reaching further into case's rifle primer pocket depth, you will experience pierced primers at the 500's operating pressure of 60,000psi
(ask me how I know)

You CAN use large rifle NATO primers, since the 500's hammer has plenty of heft.


.

What do you mean by pierced primers?

 

[Shooterbob]

H110 does not “under charge well” it’s a bad to go below starting charg with h110 .and I’m not sure played bullets can handle full charge of h110 .Please reconsider

 

[cfullgraf]

What do you mean by pierced primers?

When the firing pin hits the primer, a hole is punctured, aka pierced, in the primer allowing some of the gasses in case escape out the hole in the primer towards the rear of the gun.

Not a good thing for the gun and potentially hazardous for the shooter.

 

[cfullgraf]

H110 and berries should get along OK, so I'm just going to undercharge it and work my way up.

Unless you have some reliable published data for the Berry 300 grain bullets with H110, I'd not use it. With data, there will be no problems if you follow the data.

As already said, H110 and its identical cousin, W296, do not play well when the charge is reduced more than recommended. The recommended "reduced" charge is frequently only 3% lower than the published maximum charge.

I like and use alot of H110/W296 in a variety of cartridges but it is one powder you must follow the reliable, published data.

 

[MEHavey]

What do you mean by pierced primers?

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480414

 

[C4AJ]

H110 does not “under charge well” it’s a bad to go below starting charg with h110 .and I’m not sure played bullets can handle full charge of h110 .Please reconsider

The bullet I have can with stand 2,000 fps if that's what you mean it can't with stand?

Granted the bullets arnt exactly the same but I was gonna go lowest charge my manual recommends and go from there

 

[C4AJ]

Unless you have some reliable published data for the Berry 300 grain bullets with H110, I'd not use it. With data, there will be no problems if you follow the data.

As already said, H110 and its identical cousin, W296, do not play well when the charge is reduced more than recommended. The recommended "reduced" charge is frequently only 3% lower than the published maximum charge.

I like and use alot of H110/W296 in a variety of cartridges but it is one powder you must follow the reliable, published data.

Now for low charge I will change my powder up as you recommend and so does my manual

 

[KY DAN]

I have brass for both types of primers.

I have starline that is marked with a R for rifle primers as well as 500 brand new starline cases I bought from Cabelas in 2020 that are for pistol primers.

High pressure loads will burn through the primer, it sucks but with eye protection and shooting gloves it not a big deal.

I recommend a KM primers pocket cutter and deepen the existing pockets to the appropriate depth if that helps you any.

It's the same brass just different specifications, I have used rifle primers in both with out issues

 

[The Glockodile]

Tagged for reference.

re: Primers in this round - I did not know that.

...aaaaaand, I was thinking about .50 AE for my Deagle.

Error of errors.

 

[Blue68f100]

If you have brass with the small primer pocket just use a small rifle primer. The pocket is the same size on the small.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I recommend a KM primers pocket cutter and deepen the existing pockets to the appropriate depth if that helps you any.

I use the Lyman primer pocket uniforming tool on .44mag brass for large rifle primers for the Ruger M77/44. It's almost the same tool as the KM.

.500S&W is one of those cartridges where I think using a rifle primer with a harder, thicker cup is probably a good idea.

 

[Shooterbob]

I don’t use plated bullets diet know they could be driven that fast .but 110 and 296 should no be reduced much . Good luck

 

[C4AJ]

I don’t use plated bullets diet know they could be driven that fast .but 110 and 296 should no be reduced much . Good luck

I'm not gonna reduce the loads no more then 3% from max but here a picture of the bullets and max velocity

 

[KY DAN]

H110/296 is not a reduced load powder, run it max charge or not at all.

In 2009 while I was shooting bowling pin matches I personally witnessed a ruger redhawk 44 magnum fire the following load

Starline brass
20 grains h110
Click large pistol primer
Magnus 240 bb lead swc

These loads were loaded on a Dillon 550 and everything in this box shoot fine in previous relays when all of a sudden he got a pop instead of a boom.

My money is on the reduced loads, I have heard magnum primers are required however I have not found this evident in my uses as 15 degrees is as cold as it gets in western Kentucky.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm not gonna reduce the loads no more then 3% from max but here a picture of the bullets and max velocity

If you haven't already read up on the difference seating depth can make, before you load those smooth-driving band .50AE bullets into a full-power .500S&W revolver case might be a good time.
It's too much information for a quick post so you might want to do a forum search and do some reading in the front of the manual, as well. Those first five or six chapters have some very good general information.

I know, I know, there I go again, "Dude, don't tell people to read their manual, just regurgitate loading data..." but that ain't me, folks. I don't want to read about somebody getting hurt because a Berrie's plated lead bullet made for the .50AE doesn't seat the same in a .500S&W as a Hornady 300gr. FTX made for a revolver and an already reduced load of H110 decided to get "cranky."

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The bullet I have can with stand 2,000 fps if that's what you mean it can't with stand?

Granted the bullets arnt exactly the same but I was gonna go lowest charge my manual recommends and go from there View attachment 1082181

Okay, so, Hornady has data specific to their bullet. That's cool and all but, did you check the Hodgdon's site? Because they don't have any loading data for H110 in .500S&W and a 300gr. bullet.

I checked No.11FS because it's WC297, which is a flash-suppressed, non-cannister formulation of W296 and they load very "similarly" -

As you can see, also only shows data for the Hornady FTX but slightly different spread. That's the difference between No.11FS and H110.

I think there are some huge, gaping holes in your loading plan that you might want to reconsider before proceeding. Among other things, you will need to be VERY conscious of neck tension. You do not want a bullet pulling into the forcing cone on the range. Also, be very aware of the difference in seating depth between the FTX and the Berrie's. Finally, while I do understand the original question was about primer subs, these other issues are probably more important in the long run.

Are you fairly experienced in load development and comfortable enough with H110 to be able to compensate for changes in the powder column under the bullet? Also, you might want to consider trimming your brass to a consistent length since neck tension is going to be so critical.

 

[iShoot17]

I have brass for both types of primers.

I have starline that is marked with a R for rifle primers as well as 500 brand new starline cases I bought from Cabelas in 2020 that are for pistol primers.

Well..that’s interesting. How do you know they are for pistol? Starline states on their website that they would no longer produce pistol primer 500S&W brass after July 28, 2003. Did you just happen to come across something that old stock?

 

[KY DAN]

Well..that’s interesting. How do you know they are for pistol? Starline states on their website that they would no longer produce pistol primer 500S&W brass after July 28, 2003. Did you just happen to come across something that old stock?

I made this determination from using a depth Mike when I felt primers standing proud.

I make the assumption this brass was old stock, I got this 500 round lot for healthy discount during a holiday sale. I might be wrong and this was a mistake made in manufacturing.

 

[JJFitch]

This is probably dumb but I'm new to hand loading so figured I would get some advice and recipes for down the road anyways. I just bought my self a 500 S%W 8 3/8 barrel. I have bullets, powder but no primers unless I can use cci 350 large pistol primers.

Just been curious If they could work because I can find them but not the ones that I Turley need

Here's a "primer" on primers, lots of info for the seasoned and not so seasoned reloader!

Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications

Smiles.