Canadian folk singer killed by coyotes

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Since no one has really talked about S&T, I thought I'd offer a few thoughts. First, while attacks on humans are exceptionally rare--and almost always involve children--there have been a handful of reported attacks on adults.

First, coyotes are a fact of life throughout much of North America. Living in a suburb of Chicago, I occasionally see pretty good-sized coyotes in our neighborhood, around 50 lbs. or so, I'd estimate. Some have noted that coyotes are pretty small, but there's a fair range of sizes and they are generally larger the further north you go. Some are reported to exceed 60 lbs. As pack hunters, animals of this size do warrant respect, if not concern. Also, I'd note that coyotes somewhat frequently breed with wolves, producing "coywolves," animals that tend toward the upper range of size and aggression.

While attacks are rare, I would never assume that any encounter with a predator is completely innocuous. I've noted in other forums that when I've encountered a coyote, I've gotten the distinct feeling that they're sizing me up. It doesn't take long for them to figure out that a 210-lb. biped is less attractive prey than a fluffy bunny, but there is that initial moment where you can tell they're thinking about their options. :D

In terms of strategy, it's pretty simple. You can just leave them alone and they're likely to trot off. If you are concerned about them becoming aggressive, you should (a) try to "look big" by spreading out your arms, raising your jacket overhead, etc.; (b) make aggressive noises; and (c) toss sticks or stones at them if they don't back off. I've never gotten beyond the "looking big" and yelling at them stage, and they have invariably gotten the message and made a hasty exit.

What you do not want to do is act like prey by running. With canines this will often trigger their pursuit instinct, where otherwise they would think better.

While the story of the young lady who died in Nova Scotia is tragic, it is an exceedingly rare occurrence. If you keep your wits about you, you'll be fine.

Despite this, it's worth remembering that they will go after smaller animals, even small dogs on a leash. You need to be on your toes and meet potential aggression with a display of agression yourself, if you're out walking your itty-bitty dog. Scoop up fluffy, then act big and crazy. Coyotes won't take the chance.
 
My inlaws live in SE IA we see quite a few Coyotes while we are visting them. Last time we were down we saw two go through their yard that were way too big for normal coyotes but still had the same looking pelt and demeanor. I think they were Dog coyote mix. When you mix dogs and coyotes you end up with an animal that is not as afraid of humans as they naturally should be.

This kind of news might make me rethink letting my small boys play outside while we are down there at least by themselves. Dad might need to be a little more wairy and have some #4 shot hand for the 12 ga.


Norm Walker
River Falls WI
 
Ok I have a serious question. Are coyotes in Canada different than the ones we have here in south Texas? Because the ones I see running around in my back yard are like 30-40lbs.
 
I would hope this tragic event would open the eyes of unconcerned lawmakers that there truely might be a legitimate need for a hiker to carry personal protection (read: handgun) in the wild.

My impression was that they think that "bear mace" or whatever it is is sufficient protection against the friendly cartoon animals that live in canada...
 
Since this is in the S&T area, here's my tactical strategy in this situation or for any dog attack when I might happen to be unarmed...

Stay calm.
Grab the dog by the scruff of the neck lifting it off ground if possible.
The dog's mouth should open whilst yelping.
Use other hand to cram into animal's mouth as far down throat as possible.
Firmly grip anything in there and pull back out of animal.
Drop animal.

If more than one critter, repeat.


-Matt
 
Was she a PETA member?

Not trying to be funny, just curious. It seems many young women are members of that organization. Maybe she didn't want to hurt the animals by defending herself.

My sister is one of those PETA people that just went overboard with it. I think she's let a coyote eat her if it wanted to. I actually get the impression that she values animal life over human life.

Very sad.

There was a grisly mountain lion attack in my neck of the woods a few years ago. Luckily no fatalities...except for the two mountain lions which were promptly hunted down and exterminated by the authorities (with what appeared to be M14's, I might add).
 
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Predators were eliminated from the woods by our fore fathers. Greenies decided to bring back the cute Wolves and Coyotes.

I think you know better than that. And don't accuse me of being a tree hugger, either.

Predators are necessary in nature for a balance.

Our forefathers may have eliminated predators from the woods, but in so doing, they started a long chain of events that has culminated (so far) with their descendants ****ing up this planet royally, and now backpedaling frantically to restore it.

I have a tremendous coyote problem around my house and lose an animal about every 4 to 6 months, and by God, if I see a coyote it's dead. (I live a ways out in the high desert of Northern Arizona.)

My outlook is different, however, in that I do not actively seek them out to kill them, because I know they have a purpose in nature, whether I like it or not.

I DO go out of my way, however, and shoot to kill when I see them around my property, or if it's at night, I will discharge rounds to scare them off and let them have a fear of me. (Unfortunately, I can't afford night vision right now; Economy's too bad.:D)

I think you will find that a large part of the problem is people encroaching on what was once the animal's habitat. Of course, since our population here is only 300,000,000, and the world population is only ca. 7,000,000,000, I think we should continue our philosophy of "preservation of human life at any cost," and double the human population. After all, human beings are much nicer than animals, don't ya think?

Oh, wait... Then we don't really need CCWs, do we?
 
"An official with Parks Canada said they blocked the entrance to the trail where Taylor was attacked and were trying to find the animals to determine what caused such an unusual attack."

Say what????? I guess they thing the yotes are only on that ONE trail and that if they find them they can sit down and do an interview!!!!!! I wonder if yotes have the right to remain silent????? Maybe legal representation?????

More likely the trail was closed to keep people out while they tracked the animals....
 
Since this is in the S&T area, here's my tactical strategy in this situation or for any dog attack when I might happen to be unarmed...

Stay calm.
Grab the dog by the scruff of the neck lifting it off ground if possible.
The dog's mouth should open whilst yelping.
Use other hand to cram into animal's mouth as far down throat as possible.
Firmly grip anything in there and pull back out of animal.
Drop animal.

If more than one critter, repeat.


-Matt

obvious_troll.jpg
 
I've heard speculation that the young lady was menstruating and that's what drove the attack. Also, by the pictures I've seen she didn't appear to be in good shape she wasn't fat but she wasn't toned either. According to her family she was a "seasoned naturalist" and "well versed in wilderness camping" . One assumes that would mean she had enough sense to carry some type of pepper spray
 
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BigMustard said:
Ok I have a serious question. Are coyotes in Canada different than the ones we have here in south Texas? Because the ones I see running around in my back yard are like 30-40lbs.

In a nutshell, yes. Check out my post above. The coyotes further north in North America are generally larger than in the southern states and can exceed 60 lbs. Regardless of where they're located, they can also breed with dogs or wolves, resulting a larger animal with a more aggressive disposition.
 
You are also going to find those few "individuals" out there that think we don't need to protect ourselves from the things in nature because for some crazy reason they wouldn't hurt us. Yeah right. I've got friends in northeastern US and there are reports of coyote/wolf mixed animals, making them much more aggressive, comparable in size to small/medium wolves, and are using the trail systems we hike on.

Where I go camping in central Idaho (due east of Cascade is Warm Lake, and from there east-northeast about 3 hours drive on national forest roads) we know that we need to bring several things; a Spot GPS Messenger, food for the number of days we plan on being there +3, and plenty of firearms and ammo. The last time I was up there we had a cow elk wander through the campsite our first night there. The next evening, we heard a wolf pack chasing an elk (not sure it was the one from the previous encounter) across the ridge line. We could pick out over 8 different vocal patterns and figured it was a decent sized pack, and kept the firearms closer than normal for the rest of the trip.




Kris
 
MARINE ONE - " Where I go camping in central Idaho (due east of Cascade is Warm Lake, and from there east-northeast about 3 hours drive on national forest roads)... we heard a wolf pack chasing an elk ... We could pick out over 8 different vocal patterns and figured it was a decent sized pack, ... "

Marine One, from your description of the area, I'll take a guess that you were camping somewhere in the Bear Valley area. I have a friend who works the Whitehawk Lookout up there and he's seen three different wolf packs working in and around Bear Valley, and north to Corduroy Meadows and the old abandoned Elk Springs Lookout.

I've heard wolves several times when I've camped and hunted up there, and have seen their tracks.

My buddies and I are always armed, and when my wife comes along for a camp, she always has her Ruger Security Six .357 Mag. on her hip. Knows how to use it, too.

Never hurts to be careful.

Over the years I've run into a fair number of bliss ninnies out in the boonies who believe that there is nothing out there that would hurt them.

Uh huh.

L.W.
 
L.W.,

Actually we go to the far eastern end of lower Pistol Lake. It's a good trip getting to the parking area .... of course the ~4 miles in and 1100 foot elevation change (up 1100, and down 1100) makes for a challenge. Last time I went was in the summer of 2006 when we had the "summer of fire". Normally we can get to the site in just under two hours, but when the fire chased us out we did it in under 90 minutes.

If you've got a topo map of that area, you'll see the ridgeline NE of the lake. You won't be able to miss it due to all the deadfall that has tore up that side of the mountain. That's where the wolf pack came from and continued west then turned north once they were to our NW. I had a feeling they might have smelled us because they were close to where we crossed the ridgeline to come down into that mountain lake system.


-K
 
I read an interesting article in a Maine sportmans paper a while back that bashed the idea of reintroducing grey wolves to Maine. One of the cheif reasons why they thought the plan was not workable, was that the only way to ensure the wolves stayed wolves, was to cull thousands of yotes to prevent the inevitable interbreading.

No wolves in these parts (southern ME and NH), but feral dogs do breed with yotes and produce some interesting freaks of nature.... coydogs.

Somebody hit one with a car some time ago and the thing was so freeky looking they sent pics to the local newspaper, who published them. DNR wanted to do genetic tests on the remains, but could no longer find them.

That was one ugly looking mut
 
What a horrible way to die! I never considered the possibility of being attacked by a coyote but I'm probably twice the size of a 19 year old girl...

Last autumn I got a close up look at a very impressive coyote in South Eastern Nevada. I was surprised at his size and the condition of his coat. Much nicer than any I've seen here in Eastern, WA. He had little concern for me and my dog as he cruised by at a slow trot.

Tactically, I held onto my dog's collar and asked the 'yote where he was headed.
 
Thanks for that info, Marine One. I have not been to Pistol Lake. I figured "three hours east of Cascade," would put you over to the Deadwood River and then on east into Bear Valley.

I'll look that area up on my computer topo map.

Sounds like you and your buddies had a "nice" hike in and out. :)

L.W.
 
I grew up listening to coyotes out my bedroom window in the summertime almost nightly. It was kind of soothing. In my 29 years, I've heard hundreds of coyotes, but I've only seen about 4. All of which were alone (or appeared to be alone). The last encounter was while out on a walk in a business district. I spotted a lone coyote across the street in a tiny orchard between business buildings. We just stood there motionless staring at each other from about 50 yards for a good 2 minutes. He finally decided he didn't like the look of me and quickly disappeared into the tall grass.

But there was a time while out walking with my buddy on his 300-acre property in Central Oregon, and all of a sudden the woods came alive with the yelping of at least a dozen coyotes, moving through the trees less than 100 feet away. I was carrying my .30-30 with 6 rounds in the tube, but definitely got a chill with the thought of being ambushed by 12 or so coyotes. If taken by surprise, unarmed, I could see how a smaller person could fall victim to 2 or more coyotes. What a bad way to go.
 
We use to have lots of Grey an Red Fox in my area...then they re-introduced coyotes...I shot 3 several years ago while deer hunting, haven't seen a fox in a long time, we could of done without the coyotes...a friend had a 100lb. 3 yr. old Malamute that was chained an attacked by several coyotes, he held them off with minor wounds, there was blood all over the snow from this attack. A couple years later my friend was walking that Malamute, now getting close to 150 lbs an they spotted 2 coyotes in a open field..he turned his dog loose on them, the smaller coyote ran an the bigger one charged his dog...they hit head on....dog won instantly...he said it was a great sight.
If all the coyotes died out here in Indiana it wouldn't hurt my feelings, would love to see the fox population come back. An I wish that poor gal could of had a rifle, or a good dog.
 
The coyotes in Eastern Canada are larger than coyotes we see here out west. Easter coyotes are the size of a large German Shepherd dog ie. 60-70 lbs.

The attack occurred in a popular National park where firearms and hunting are prohibited. Animals in these parks lose much of their fear of humans. Always a bad situation.

Amazingly the victims mother was interviewed and she said that she was sure that her daughter would not want the coyotes who mauled her to be killed. Fortunately the conservation officers were not as addle brained and have killed the coyotes that attacked the young woman.
 
How would they possibly know which individual Coyotes were supposed to have done the 'attack'?
 
Bergman's Rule

Regarding animal size in warm/cold climes, Bergman's Rule (roughly paraphrased, "As animals get larger, the colder are the temperatures they can tolerate without incurring extra thermoregulatory energy costs") is accepted as the explanation of the phenomenon. I hunted swamp deer in south Louisiana (Plaquemines Parish) in the late 60's and they were German Shepherd sized and had wide hooves to get around in the swamp. In the late 70's I hunted deer in Talbot County Georgia, and they were monsters (GA record at the time was 307 lbs, taken in Meriwether County about 20 miles north of where I hunted). I took a 12 year old boy hunting & he killed a 250+ lb 8 point - with a Win 92 44-40 & hot loads. Later in the mid-late 90's in west Texas, they were large German Shepherd size again. As an aside, Georgia & Wisconsin traded in the 60's: GA sent WI turkeys, and WI sent blacktail deer (a whitetail variant) to GA. The blacktails were huge deer, from the north in Wisconsin, and were much larger than the native GA whitetails. They were the source of the large deer, and in the ensuing years deer have been reverting to their native size, i.e., smaller.

Learned it at LSU New Orleans in '71 & it was a fascinating study I have never forgotten. So if the coyotes down south are small, and their northern cousins are big, they're just following the rules... :rolleyes:

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How would they possibly know which individual Coyotes were supposed to have done the 'attack'?

Forensics.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/11/02/ns-coyote-attack-tests.html

Tests confirm coyote attacked hiker
Last Updated: Monday, November 2, 2009 | 2:27 PM AT Comments128Recommend65CBC News
Preliminary tests show that a coyote destroyed in Cape Breton was one of the animals that attacked and killed a hiker last week.

Taylor Mitchell, 19, died after she was attacked Tuesday by two coyotes while on the Skyline Trail in Cape Breton Highlands National Park.

Parks Canada staff tracked down and destroyed a coyote that night. The animal was sent for testing to the Atlantic Veterinary Centre, which confirmed the coyote was involved in the attack.
 
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