MyKeySee
Member
I just picked up a Mark II in 30/40 Krag, I thought they were only .303 , any ideas as to what happened?
Thanks in advance
P.S. It looks like the original barrel.
Thanks in advanceP.S. It looks like the original barrel.
Canadian ROSS Mark II
- Thread starter MyKeySee
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.30-40 Krag and .303 British are dimensionally very similar.
What makes you certain it's a .30-40 Krag? Is the barrel marked as such? The military Ross rifles were issued in .303 British, and have a bore diameter a smidgen larger than the .308" of the .30-40 Krag. .303 British bores run about .310-.312", so a quick test is to see how a .308" bullet inserts from the muzzle end of that unloaded Ross rifle.
Your safest bet would be to have a chamber casting done, which would eliminate all guessing.
Perhaps somebody rechambered a Ross to the .30-40 Krag, but that would still be a sloppy bullet fit to the bore, unless it's a wildcat .31-40 Krag, just like folks did with their rechambered .31-06 Arisaka Type 99 rifles.
What makes you certain it's a .30-40 Krag? Is the barrel marked as such? The military Ross rifles were issued in .303 British, and have a bore diameter a smidgen larger than the .308" of the .30-40 Krag. .303 British bores run about .310-.312", so a quick test is to see how a .308" bullet inserts from the muzzle end of that unloaded Ross rifle.
Your safest bet would be to have a chamber casting done, which would eliminate all guessing.
Perhaps somebody rechambered a Ross to the .30-40 Krag, but that would still be a sloppy bullet fit to the bore, unless it's a wildcat .31-40 Krag, just like folks did with their rechambered .31-06 Arisaka Type 99 rifles.
Gordon
Member
I have a 1915 Ross in .303. I never heard tell of a 30-40 BUT I know they can be converted readily to .405 Winchester!
chestnut ridge
Member
With some Ross rifles; it is possible to reassemble the bolt in such a manner
that it will push forward and load a round and fire the round; but the locking
lugs will not be rotated into the proper locked position. This allows the bolt
to blow back into the shooters head.
There is much information on the subject; it had a poor reputation
in the trenches of WW1. I have several; I like them- but I am very careful
to see the bolt head rotate home when I shoot them.
that it will push forward and load a round and fire the round; but the locking
lugs will not be rotated into the proper locked position. This allows the bolt
to blow back into the shooters head.
There is much information on the subject; it had a poor reputation
in the trenches of WW1. I have several; I like them- but I am very careful
to see the bolt head rotate home when I shoot them.
Sunray
Member
"...so a quick test is to see how a .308" bullet inserts from the muzzle end of that unloaded Ross rifle..." That tells you nothing.
It's entirely possible that somebody changed the barrel at sometime. Slug the bore. Hammer a cast .308 bullet through the barrel and measure it. If the bullet measures .308" it could well be a .30-40. .311" or up it's not.
A chamber cast using Cerrosafe, (Brownell's.) will tell you exactly what it's chambered for.
It's entirely possible that somebody changed the barrel at sometime. Slug the bore. Hammer a cast .308 bullet through the barrel and measure it. If the bullet measures .308" it could well be a .30-40. .311" or up it's not.
A chamber cast using Cerrosafe, (Brownell's.) will tell you exactly what it's chambered for.
Sunray, don't ever stop being your wonderful self, ok?
Maybe not in your cheerful Canadian mind, but it tells me plenty. If a .308 bullet enters completely and easily into that Ross' muzzle, chances are good it's got a .310-312" bore. And we know that the U.S. .30-40 Krag didn't come from the factory that way, so that leaves, what? C'mon, Sunray, you can do it! Yup, a .303 British barrel!
On the other hand, if that .308" bullet doesn't enter all the way, or enters until it gets past the worst-case cleaning rod wear, then perhaps we do have a rebarreled Canadian military Ross that somebody spent way too much time and effort rebarreling to the Yankee .30-40 Krag.
It's a quick and dirty test. In case you missed it, I also mentioned something about a chamber cast being appropriate...
Maybe not in your cheerful Canadian mind, but it tells me plenty. If a .308 bullet enters completely and easily into that Ross' muzzle, chances are good it's got a .310-312" bore. And we know that the U.S. .30-40 Krag didn't come from the factory that way, so that leaves, what? C'mon, Sunray, you can do it! Yup, a .303 British barrel!
On the other hand, if that .308" bullet doesn't enter all the way, or enters until it gets past the worst-case cleaning rod wear, then perhaps we do have a rebarreled Canadian military Ross that somebody spent way too much time and effort rebarreling to the Yankee .30-40 Krag.
It's a quick and dirty test. In case you missed it, I also mentioned something about a chamber cast being appropriate...
MyKeySee
Member
The barrel is marked 30-40 Krag!! The person I got it from said his father shot it, but he has passed on so I can't get anymore info:banghead: I will try the test and let you know
P.S. Did the bullet test and a .308 doesn,t go thru, it's about where it should be for the muzzle check on a .308
P.S. Did the bullet test and a .308 doesn,t go thru, it's about where it should be for the muzzle check on a .308
SMLE
Member
Ross DID make a lot of commercial rifles. Is this rifle actually a military rifle, or one of the sporters? I don't recall off the top of my head what calibers the sporters were available in, but 30-40 would be a very likely one.
MyKeySee
Member
It's marked Ross rifle CO. Quebec Canada 1905, but it does have a sporterized
stock. I can't find any info about the sporter model, so anything would be greatly appeciated! Thanks for all the help and if it is the sporter, any idea what it might be worth?
stock. I can't find any info about the sporter model, so anything would be greatly appeciated! Thanks for all the help and if it is the sporter, any idea what it might be worth?
I'd wager if it's a well-done sporter, it may be worth some good money.
I'm thinking along the lines of Sedgeley Springfields, which were an order of magnitude above one's typical sporter conversion of a military bolt-action rifle.
It begs the question of why somebody would rebarrel a Ross to .30-40 Krag, unless it was intended as an export model for U.S. consumption, we Yanks probably didn't want the oddball .280 Ross, either. .303 British was more likely the choice of riflemen in Canada compared to .30-40 Krag or .30-03/.30-06 Springfield from south of the border. If only the rifle could talk!
Thanks for letting us know about the barrel markings. That info was conspicuously missing from your first message in the thread, hence my asking.
A chamber cast would still be a good idea, even if the bore diameter is determined to be .308".
Likewise, if it's a Ross military-pattern action, read up on the proper bolt assembly instructions before shooting it. You don't need a steel implant in your skull shaped like a Ross bolt.
I'm thinking along the lines of Sedgeley Springfields, which were an order of magnitude above one's typical sporter conversion of a military bolt-action rifle.
It begs the question of why somebody would rebarrel a Ross to .30-40 Krag, unless it was intended as an export model for U.S. consumption, we Yanks probably didn't want the oddball .280 Ross, either. .303 British was more likely the choice of riflemen in Canada compared to .30-40 Krag or .30-03/.30-06 Springfield from south of the border. If only the rifle could talk!
Thanks for letting us know about the barrel markings. That info was conspicuously missing from your first message in the thread, hence my asking.
A chamber cast would still be a good idea, even if the bore diameter is determined to be .308".
Likewise, if it's a Ross military-pattern action, read up on the proper bolt assembly instructions before shooting it. You don't need a steel implant in your skull shaped like a Ross bolt.
Gordon
Member
I have a Ross R-10 Sporter.303, looks pretty military except Winchester semi buckhorn sights! The higher grade E-10(both 1905&1910) was made in .35 WCF, which is the 30-40 opened to .35, I think. The M-10 was made in .280 Ross.
The 1907 Model was called the "Scotch Deer Rifle Stalking Pattern" and has a 4 shot enclosed mag and finer wood and checkering. THIS is the model that MAY have been 30-40 conversion as it was supplied "in the white" (USUALLY in .280 Ross) for British gumakers to complete.
Is the mag hanging out below stock military style or enclosed?
The 1907 Model was called the "Scotch Deer Rifle Stalking Pattern" and has a 4 shot enclosed mag and finer wood and checkering. THIS is the model that MAY have been 30-40 conversion as it was supplied "in the white" (USUALLY in .280 Ross) for British gumakers to complete.
Is the mag hanging out below stock military style or enclosed?
Gordon
Member
Wait a minute! Reading up on this: The Mark ll * if it has a 'Flaming Bomb Proof' marking AND has a 27 1/8" (instead of 28") barrel because it was shortened and rechambered to 30-40 US Government.!!!!!!!!!
That .003 "loose barrel prolly had no effect on a military rifle.
BTW Ross rifles were considered extremely accurate in their day, MUCH more so than Enfields. The Scotch rifle and the US marked ones have a 90% value of about $1000.
That .003 "loose barrel prolly had no effect on a military rifle.
BTW Ross rifles were considered extremely accurate in their day, MUCH more so than Enfields. The Scotch rifle and the US marked ones have a 90% value of about $1000.
MyKeySee
Member
It has an enclosed mag, 5 shot I think and the barrel length is 24 1/4"
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