Can't get moved. So...

[ofitg]

Cannonman, did you order one of those "musket cap" cannon locks from Dixie Gun Works?

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Officer's Wife, thanks for the suggestion. I wonder how difficult it would be take some moist meal BP (with a little Dextrin binder) and mold it into a narrow cylinder shape, which could be installed (and glued in place) after drying......

Another improvement - instead of using a sliver of emery board, it would be good to use a steel rod with a surface texture similar to the emery board.... perhaps a rusty/pitted nail?
I'm thinking that the abrasive rod could be permanently attached to the lanyard. To prepare an individual primer for firing, the match head could be pulled back (against spring pressure) away from the transverse hole, and the abrasive rod could be inserted.

 

[BCRider]

A length of fine thread machine screw could be used instead of laboriously cutting emery boards into strips. Also the length of machine screw would not require you to position it grit side to the match.

Another option might be a short length of the rounded carbide particle coated hacksaw blades sold for cutting in any direction.

These options, other than the screw thread. would cut away at the brass tubing but it should still last long enough to work for a dozen or more firings.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Cannonman, did you order one of those "musket cap" cannon locks from Dixie Gun Works?

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Officer's Wife, thanks for the suggestion. I wonder how difficult it would be take some moist meal BP (with a little Dextrin binder) and mold it into a narrow cylinder shape, which could be installed (and glued in place) after drying......

Another improvement - instead of using a sliver of emery board, it would be good to use a steel rod with a surface texture similar to the emery board.... perhaps a rusty/pitted nail?
I'm thinking that the abrasive rod could be permanently attached to the lanyard. To prepare an individual primer for firing, the match head could be pulled back (against spring pressure) away from the transverse hole, and the abrasive rod could be inserted.

if you had the powder solid with a binder it would act as a time delay fuse. With loose powder and a "pellet" the burning pellet would be "shot" into the main charge. Since the "strike strips" on a strike anywhere match box are usually just ground glass glued to cardboard why not just soak some yarn in wood glue then roll it in some sand? If it were hung for the glue to set, gravity would keep them straight and the sand crystals would be more than abrasive enough to fire the match head.

 

[Jim K]

I think some caution is advised. There was a reason they used friction primers instead of some kind of caplock. The reason was that the high pressure and touch hole of a cannon will drive a conventional hammer back so hard that it will be damaged or broken off and the lock itself ruined as pieces go flying in all directions.

The Navy didn't like friction primers because sailors manned the guns in bare feet and the shards of friction primers cut their feet, so they used quills. But naval guns earlier used flintlock ignition, but if you look at the locks you will see that the flame channel is offset so the eruption from the hole goes up past the lock.

So, unless you can design some kind of percussion lock that won't be wrecked or blown to bits by the flash from the touch hole, I think the idea of a percussion cannon should be reconsidered.

Jim

 

[ofitg]

Jim, I have used the Dixie Gun Works cannon lock, which requires that a musket nipple be installed in the top of the vent hole. The only trouble I ever had with it was, the flash from the musket cap wasn't capable of reaching the main powder charge. It was necessary to unscrew the nipple and fill the vent hole with loose powder before each shot.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

Not to get to far off subject but I wonder if the Dixie Gun Works cannon lock would work on a soda can mortar?

 

[4v50 Gary]

ofitg - that's neat! Thanks for sharing. I'm going to make this a sticky for homemade friction primers.

 

[ofitg]

if you had the powder solid with a binder it would act as a time delay fuse. With loose powder and a "pellet" the burning pellet would be "shot" into the main charge.

You know, sitting here playing with the prototype, I realized that the thing might not need any BP at all. When the abrasive rod is pulled out, the spring will throw that match right out the uncrimped end..... with the primer tube held horizontally 3 feet off the floor, the match landed about 5 feet away.

This "friction primer" would shoot a flaring match down the vent hole, straight into the main powder charge.

 

[Officers'Wife]

You know, sitting here playing with the prototype, I realized that the thing might not need any BP at all. When the abrasive rod is pulled out, the spring will throw that match right out the uncrimped end..... with the primer tube held horizontally 3 feet off the floor, the match landed about 5 feet away.

This "friction primer" would shoot a flaring match down the vent hole, straight into the main powder charge.

Perhaps, but would you want to? Strike anywhere matches are going to contain either chlorates or phosphorus. The by-products of the former extremely corrosive and the latter dissolved by hot steel giving a brittle alloy. A powder charge would not only "shoot" the fire into the main charge but blow the by-products of the match away from the vent. A descriptive analogy comes to mind but luckily for all concern I promised to refrain from such.

 

[ofitg]

Personally, I probably wouldn't worry about it. When the match is at the bottom of the vent hole and contacts the main charge, I would expect the consequent chamber pressure to expel the match, the spring, the chlorate/phosphorus by-products, and the primer's brass carcass out the top of the vent hole.
Because it's a BP gun, it would be wise to clean the bore & vent hole after the shooting session has ended.

Chlorates have an established history - they were widely used in small arms primers 100 years ago - they were corrosive, so cleaning the guns was "SOP".

< By the way, what does "OMB" stand for?>

I am not familiar with the potential effects of the phosphorus by-products..... would they deposit a residue which would not be removed by routine cleaning? Are there long-term issues to worry about? If so, how much time (or how many shots) are we talking about?

EDIT - I found an online reference to a military primer compound, FA675, which contained red phosphorus -

https://books.google.com/books?id=d...0CCcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=fa-675 primer&f=false

 

[Officers'Wife]

OK, I really don't know how to explain this without an allegory but I will try...

Iron is a very very good solvent, when it dissolves carbon you get a grade of steel, when it dissolves chromium and molybdenum you get stainless steel. And keep in mind that the iron doesn't have to be molten for the elements to be absorbed. "Blister steel" is made simply by putting iron ingots in a bed of coal or charcoal and setting the carbon on fire. The carbon will migrate through the iron even the temps are less than the melting point.

When the solute is phosphorus trouble starts. The phosphorus may start attracting the carbon or chrome or moly (the latter two are rare occurrences but it does happen) and cause a layering effect that effects the tempering planes of the metal and cause brittleness.

OBM is a genetic disorder carried by the "Y" chromosome. While far less damaging than than TI (testosterone intellect) it is still a pervasive and diabolical disease carried by all that possess the "Y" chromosome. While the majority can temper the OBM (obsessive machine builder) that control becomes less and less certain as the victim ages. In extreme cases the victim will spend insane amounts of money on punch presses, milling machines, turret lathes and even foundry furnaces as well as even more exotic machines of mass construction.

 

[Crawdad1]

I think it came down to either a new diningroom set or a new turret lathe and someone, not mentioning any names, bought the turret lathe.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I think it came down to either a new diningroom set or a new turret lathe and someone, not mentioning any names, bought the turret lathe.

Not only quite rude but a prime example of TI.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I'm not sure of the absorption rate of phosphorus into steel. Since I tend to be very protective of investments (and like it or not a cannon would be an investment) I would prefer to err on the side of caution. In the practical sense the device would be worthwhile to construct and use if only in the sense the cannoneer could stand behind the weapon at a safe distance from recoil to verify his aim. The extra elements in the fouling would be factor of the owner's risk/benefit tolerance. Since I "don't have a dog in the fight" it's not for me to say using match only shouldn't be done.

 

[ofitg]

OBM is a genetic disorder carried by the "Y" chromosome. While far less damaging than than TI (testosterone intellect) it is still a pervasive and diabolical disease carried by all that possess the "Y" chromosome. While the majority can temper the OBM (obsessive machine builder) that control becomes less and less certain as the victim ages. In extreme cases the victim will spend insane amounts of money on punch presses, milling machines, turret lathes and even foundry furnaces as well as even more exotic machines of mass construction.

I wonder if OMB might be a manifestation of Aspergers Syndrome? The symptoms (obsession with inanimate/technical problems) sound eerily similar....

Meanwhile back at the ranch, I'm not sure of the absorption rate of phosphorus into steel. Since I tend to be very protective of investments (and like it or not a cannon would be an investment) I would prefer to err on the side of caution. In the practical sense the device would be worthwhile to construct and use if only in the sense the cannoneer could stand behind the weapon at a safe distance from recoil to verify his aim. The extra elements in the fouling would be factor of the owner's risk/benefit tolerance. Since I "don't have a dog in the fight" it's not for me to say using match only shouldn't be done.

In addition to the military use of a phosphorus primer, it occurred to me that some cap & ball shooters have been field-testing phosphorus primers for several years - the toy caps loaded into Tap-O-Cap hulls.

If the cannoneer chose to use the match only, without loading BP into the friction primer, the primer's brass tube could be re-used immediately, shot after shot...... it would be a good idea to tether the brass tube to the gun so it could be easily recovered after "rocketing" out of the vent hole.
Assuming that the abrasive rod was attached to the cannoneer's lanyard, the only expended items would be the matches and the ball-point-pen springs.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I wonder if OMB might be a manifestation of Aspergers Syndrome? The symptoms (obsession with inanimate/technical problems) sound eerily similar....



In addition to the military use of a phosphorus primer, it occurred to me that some cap & ball shooters have been field-testing phosphorus primers for several years - the toy caps loaded into Tap-O-Cap hulls.

If the cannoneer chose to use the match only, without loading BP into the friction primer, the primer's brass tube could be re-used immediately, shot after shot...... it would be a good idea to tether the brass tube to the gun so it could be easily recovered after "rocketing" out of the vent hole.
Assuming that the abrasive rod was attached to the cannoneer's lanyard, the only expended items would be the matches and the ball-point-pen springs.

Since I only allow myself one rant a month I'll pass on the comparison to OMB and any bona-fide medical problem. I believe it's related more to the joy of creation than any kind of true defect of mind save temperance.

As for reuse, with such a simple and inexpensive system the hobbyist would be more likely to build however many he needs for the powder and ball he has available. I'm not familiar with the manual of arms for the devices but it would seem likely adding reloading the quill in the field might be a step he would want to avoid after reloading the cannon. Also tethering the quill would mean adding a bracket to the device as well as the quill. The first rule of redneck engineering is KISS - Keep It Simple and Stupid. Over-engineering all too often creates more problems than it solves.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

Made a black powder cannon once that used 209M magnum shotgun primers. Used a spring-powered arm held in the cocked position by a pin that ran between the "wings" that acted as the bearings and shield for the spark channel. Pulled the lanyard; pulled the pin; the arm snapped over and fired the primer. Never did find an expended primer.

 

[CANNONMAN]

Could I see a pic of that please?

 

[ofitg]

ofitg - that's neat! Thanks for sharing. I'm going to make this a sticky for homemade friction primers.

Gary, you can blame Officers Wife. That gizmo is just an adaptation of the ideas presented in post #17.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Gary, you can blame Officers Wife. That gizmo is just an adaptation of the ideas presented in post #17.

One of the first signs of the out of control OMB is when they start blaming others for their depraved acts of mass construction. I was just describing what my research had found, an intellectual exercise. It was your Y chromosome fueled obsession that inflicted your creation of wood and brass on the innocent members of the forum.

 

[ofitg]

It was an interesting idea, using kitchen matches..... but I might have found a (fatal) flaw with kitchen matches.... they seem to be a lot less sensitive (ie, a lot harder to ignite) when they get cold.
That "friction primer" gizmo worked OK in the warm cozy house, but after the components/matches sat overnight in my cold garage, the gizmo was not reliable at all.

 

[Officers'Wife]

It was an interesting idea, using kitchen matches..... but I might have found a (fatal) flaw with kitchen matches.... they seem to be a lot less sensitive (ie, a lot harder to ignite) when they get cold.
That "friction primer" gizmo worked OK in the warm cozy house, but after the components/matches sat overnight in my cold garage, the gizmo was not reliable at all.

What is the relative humidity in the garage v your house? Remember that water vapor is like the people that tell long involved jokes then forget the punch line. It takes very little contact to cool the fiery mood of the devil may care phosphorus. What you need is the desperate old maid to separate the fiery phosphorus and the wet blanket humidity. Try Para Finn, the Irish widow with 8 children just begging for a father. Nothing keeps a scoundrel like moisture away as much as the threat of commitment.

Sorry, eventually I shrink back to allegory. It's one of my many weaknesses. Seriously it really sounds more like the heads are absorbing moisture more than temp differences. Try a light coating of paraffin on the match head as a moisture barrier. You might want to coat the ends of the emory board as well as the cardboard has the "tubing" to wick moisture.