Can't imagine 5.7 is the best choice for personal defense

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Forseti

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I don't think 5.7 (non military version of the round) is good for civillian self-defense....

Consider the following...

Civillian encounters with bad guys most often occur within one car length (bad guys have to get that close to take what you have). So we are talking about short range in the vast majority of cases.

The way a person is "stopped" (as opposed to killed 10 minutes after being shot) is by bleeding out in a hurry...sudden loss of blood pressure. Big holes center mass is better than small holes....which is why hollowpoints are so popular...

At close range, a 5.7 with max energy would most likely punch straight through the target, leaving a very small hole. I'm not even sure if the double cavity wound that high powered rounds usually cause would even be formed, unless the "military" deforming version of the 5.7 ammo is used...

Has anybody tested the "civillian" version of the round at very short range on ballistics gel?
 
One advantage being that an FN 57 holds 20 rounds.

Aside, even with hollow points i doubt wouldnt be as effective as say a .40 or 9mm HP.

It is a great military round though....
 
Limited reports from Abu Dhabi and Cyprus where this pistol is in use with security forces suggest that people who have been hit with this cartridge fall down and expire in a relatively short period of time, i.e. immediately.
 
I don't think 5.7 (non military version of the round) is good for civillian self-defense....
Click to expand...

I'm not sure either platform this round is fired in was designed with civilian self defense in mind. Both weapons were designed for miliatry applications and the ammo of which you speak was designed for military target practice with the other 2 or 4 types being designed for combat [and in particular to defeat body armour].

So... you are probably 100% right.... and FN may not care. If home defense becomes a matter of defeating BGs in super sophisticated body armour it might be a pretty good tool. :D

[It would be a fun round in certain varmit rifles.]

Hope I didn't come off snotty. Not my intention.

S-
 
The 5.7mm SS190 is nose light causing bent nose tumbling in the first 2"-3" almost every time. I think individual 9mm jhp is more effective, the advantage to 5.7mm pistol is light recoil for multiply quick hits. In its counter part the P-90 those multiply quick hits are 15 per second for 3 plus seconds. The CZ-52 is round nose ball with no tumble or upset.
 
Big holes center mass is better than small holes....which is why hollowpoints are so popular...
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All handgun bullets create small holes. The 5.7mm SS192 civilian round doesn't punch through the target. The only gelatin test with it that I know of stated 8 -10 inches penetration in bare gelatin and 9 - 9.7 inches through heavy clothing.

The military 5.7mm ammo doesn't deform at all. It is an FMJ. The civilian JHP SS192 ammo actually doesn't deform either, despite being a hollow point. It is made to tumble just like the military SS190 and has a length of .85", maximizing the wound cavity.

There are two upcoming civilian loads for the 5.7x28mm: the SS196 and the SS197. Both use a 40 grain V-max bullet. The SS196 is 1650 fps and the SS197 is 2000 fps.

The FN Five-seveN Forum

-DmL
 
Multiple bullet wounds always look great in court. I know what your saying but I bet they have thin jackets on them and are designed to fragment like the 5.56. I dont know this but I bet its the case.
 
I just checked out that five seven forum and they all claim that it has three times the STOPING POWER than a 9mm. Talking ball ammo here. The price is something else, but that kind of advantage might be worth it, like to hear some peoples thoughts that dont own a five seven.
 
I just checked out that five seven forum and they all claim that it has three times the STOPING POWER than a 9mm. Talking ball ammo here. The price is something else, but that kind of advantage might be worth it, like to hear some peoples thoughts that dont own a five seven.
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No, they don't "all claim" that. That claim came from a GunWorld article. Read:

the author had indicated the US Secret Service feels that the FiveSeven w/ the ss192 ammo has three times the stopping power of the 9 mm round.

Obviously, this isn't the case, and I doubt the US SS made this statement in the first place. The lethality of the 5.7mm would probably be about the same as a 9mm JHP. This is a statement made by Sandy Wall of Houston, TX SWAT. Read:

The 5.7mm ball produces a wound cavity about the size and shape of the best 9mm 115 grain JHP +P+, except the peak occurs at a deeper penetration. -Sandy Wall

http://www.trmagonline.com/Spring2003TR/spring2003experienceswiththefnp90.htm

And just so you know, I don't own a Five-seveN.

-DmL
 
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I think the FN 57 would be a good military sidearm come to think of it... 20 round magazine, giving you 21 rounds total... if your rifle jams and the fecal matter is hitting the air dispersement unit... and enemys are closing in to pistol range... 21 rounds sounds good to me... and as I understand it the military version of the ammo is more effective...

As for the ammo available to civilians, no I dont think its a very good defensive round, if your gonna carry a 57, thats a large gun, if your gonna carry a large gun, you can carry a 9mm and get 18 rounds... or a 40 and get 15.... (give or take)
 
The SS190 is a great military round in its intended role. Designed to penetrate the PASGT helmet, according to FN, even when fired from the shorter barrel. Think downed pilot behind enemy lines. This was what the 5-7 pistol was designed for...as a companion to your P90 so they could share ammo.

The SS192 was almost a politically correct replacement round for the SS190.

All these other variants are attempts to retore political correctness to the failed PC efforts of FN wrt the SS192.

My advice is to shoot up the lame SS192-6-7 and keep the brass. Reload it with some nice Barnes copper bullets. Voila, you have something like the SS190, which was not imported by FN for PC reasons.
 
The SS192 is very similar to the SS190 ballistically and tumbles in the same manner. The SS196 is definitely inferior to the SS190, but the SS197 isn't at all. Basically, the SS197 is an SS190 with a heavier bullet at a lower velocity. It gets back what it loses. The 40 grain bullet at 2000 fps creates 355 ft. lbs of ME.

And yes, the SS190 is a great military round. I'm not talking about for in a rifle, I mean for a pistol or small PDW that can be carried at all times and will be on you if you must leave your vehicle. The SS190 offers a very flat trajectory, armor penetration, high capacity, low recoil, and lethality that is at least on par with 9mm FMJ, which is what it was created to replace. (And is in the process of replacing with NATO)

Also when considering the Five-seveN for CCW, remember that despite being the size of a 1911, it has nearly 3x the capacity, weighs 1/2 as much, and produces less recoil.

-DmL
 
Also when considering the Five-seveN for CCW, remember that despite being the size of a 1911, it has nearly 3x the capacity, weighs 1/2 as much, and produces less recoil.
Click to expand...

Very true, and also a very informative post.... But until prices on 57 ammo come down, I dont see it being any better than a 9mm, as stated above, In a similar size frame you can have near the same capacity as the 57... (and no Im not a huge 9mm fan, aside from it being cheap to plink with, I carry a .45) the 57 round works great for what it was designed to do - penetrate armor.
 
This has been a very interesting and informative thread.
I'm neither hot of cold on the issue of the 5.7 except to say the round and the platforms are very interesting. Ugly but interesting.

If we all step away from the debate for a second and look with detachment on this particular weapon system and its future might we not ask if this system comprises an answer for which the question needn't be asked.

Look at the places US forces are in the World today and who they are actively fighting. BA clad combatants seem acutely scarce. In some circles it is evident our decision makers seem to want bigger, not smaller, bullets. I think the realities on "our present-day" battlefield will drive our implementation decisions.

Look at the places the Euros are fighting today or have fought in recent years. BA for the enemy was not an issue because they have largely gone no where and waged war on no one.

The Euros seem much involved IMO developing a new weapons system to fight a foe that likely does not and will not exist and one they will never leave home looking for. Neither the FSU or the USA is likely to invade Europe anytime soon. Who are they planning to shoot at with these things and what are the chances our somewhat hide bound decision makers will dial into this idea regardless of what NATO wants.

Still, I cannot blame FN (likely winner) or HK (likely looser) for trying to make a buck.

S-

S-
 
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