the 5.7x28 nato - my theory

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You can not compare a P90 SMG with LEO rounds with a PS90 and varmint rounds...
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Well that depends on what you plan to use it for. If your intention is not a SD rifle and just a fun rifle then the PS90 will work just fine. If you're looking for a fun varmint rifle the the PS90 would be interesting choice but I'm sure it would work well enough.

Like I said earlier when it comes to the 5.7x28 it doesn't mean much to me, I don't buy guns simply for how well they kill people;)
 
You can not compare a P90 SMG with LEO rounds with a PS90 and varmint rounds
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This is true,

However, you can get the AP stuff they sell it on gunbroker, and before the "that's not legal" crew shows up....it is, FN sells it from a bonded warehouse or whatever, the end receiver though dump it to the civil market, I find this stupid but so is the law.

From what I understand some of the "legal" ammo while not like the AP stuff has good abilities too,

And we could mention that company making custom 5.7 ammo, but that is another thread and a half,
 
5.7x28 = 17HMR in usefulness... Fun, fast, and accurate. But it's not my choice for a manstopper no matter what happens.
 
the 5.7x28mm round is a decent round if used as intended.
intended= firing it out of a P90 at 900 rounds per minute out to ~100meters.
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+1

That's there are a few reasons I haven't purchased a PS90, that being one of them. Part of what makes that rifle so cool is that with the soft recoil, you can put a lot of rounds down range really quick and quite accurately. With the PS90, you're automatically stuck with a 16" barrel (in some places), can't take full advantage of the platform without the FA capability, and the civilian ammo is SORELY lacking compared to the LEO stuff rolling out of the FN factories. That being said, I really like the platform and would love to get one, but I just can't get excited enough to buy one when I know mine is neutered compared to what the real deal can do.
 
Jacksonville PD SWAT has probably shot more people with the P90 and SS190 ammo then any other organization in the world. They dropped it because it was ineffective.

That tells me all I need to know about the 5.7 as a viable combat round.
 
How does the SS192 jhp ammo hold up against the SS197SR?

My local shop has a 2000rd can of the SS192 and they want $800 for it. A buddy of mine and I were going to go half and half on it but I don't know if it's any better or worse than the SS197SR that I can get for about $19 a box.
 
nwilliams, that's actually a pretty good deal for ss192. it wasn't long ago, people were asking $60+ per box on gunbroker. (for no good reason)
 
Best deal I know lately was 735 shipped for 197SR, but their sold out, as is most everybody, so $800 in your hand for SS192 is a good deal. If you want it, get it. It's a fun round to shoot. Save your brass and sell it to me. :)

I bought my AR57 for a range toy. I am sure it would be effective at close range if you were able to pump multiple rounds into them, but it would not be my first, or even second choice. As I posted earlier about 500 yards, even if you could get a lightweight bullet to 2900 or 3000 FPS in 5.7 it would be floating by the time it got to 500 yards.
 
the 5.7x28mm round is a decent round if used as intended.
intended= firing it out of a P90 at 900 rounds per minute out to ~100meters.
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Yeah, and specifically, it seems like the BEST use is hosing a specific target on full auto, such as hardened plexiglass - you can hold on target due to low recoil and hose a specific area to open up a hole in short order to shoot what's on the other side. And/or if it's very likely that your adversary will be protected with soft (but NOT hard) body armor. And/or if you have a need to try to hide a longgun under a trench coat or similar while blending into society - some sort of covert ops. Very narrow mission-specific niches. Not a good general purpose longarm, seems to me.

Without the full-auto, it's a novelty/fun range gun, or fun varmint gun. So I guess the theory's been thoroughly debunked.
 
nwilliams, that's actually a pretty good deal for ss192. it wasn't long ago, people were asking $60+ per box on gunbroker. (for no good reason)
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Yeah I'll most likely buy it.

Just out of curiosity since we're on the topic of stopping power would the SS192 be a more effective defensive round due to the fact it's jhp?
 
Good enough for the Secret Service....

40740173secretserviceapiy3.jpg
 
Can anyone tell what the pictured gentlemans side arm is? It is to small of a photo for my eyes and I dont want to humiliate my self saying what I think it is because I might be way off but I will say interestingly that it does not appear to be the five seven.
 
I thought Sig with the little mark on the grip and with someone as knowledgable as Zak to back me up I am willing to say so.

I will try and google it but does the secret service have a standard side arm? I know they still use the MP5 because I know an agent and it is what he carries under his coat on certain assignments.
 
Oh I can't believe I missed so much of this thread.

Girodin the standard Secret Service sidearm as far as I know is the SIG P229 in .357SIG.

As for the 5.7X28 it is interesting as an alternative to a .22 Magnum, or a .22 Hornet. No one chambers it in a small bolt action sporter though.

As a combat cartridge I'll take the 5.56NATO every time given a choice between the two, and frankly given my experience with the 5.56NATO in Iraq I would prefer something a little heavier than that too. Not necessarily a 7.62NATO, but something in between. 6mm or 6.5mm, maybe even a .257. Unfortunately any cartridge that would be able to drive one of the above mentioned projectiles to an adequate velocity while feeding reliably in an automatic rifle or belt fed weapon, is not going to fit inside a M16 magazine or magazine well.
 
It better be about the size of a Kimber, or Weatherby .17 HMR sporter or those will be a tough sell.

The cartridge could make a wonderful small game round for guys that like to reload instead of buying .22 MAG or .17HMR. In fact a 5.7X28 necked down to .17 would be a great little varmint round.
 
I want some one besides FN to make a 5.7 pistol. I have used the five seven for rabbit hunting and it was good fun. I would like to have a companion for the PS90 for small game but the five seven simply does not justify its price tag save that it is the only game in town. If it were $500 like it ought to be I would get one as another fun gun.
 
It might make a for a neat little revolver round if a manufacturer could make in head space right in a revolver.

Otherwise a semiauto pistol with a singe stack magazine (for a nice slim profile) and nice adjustable sights could be a good little field gun.
 
The original hypotheses

As I read the original statement 3 pages back, a case is being made for a fragmenting leathal military cartridge. If leathality was the only consideration we would be using game loads, illeagaly. Anyone remember the Geneva Convention? Any body remember the Boer war? A military round is most effective when it removes a combatant on the other side but does not kill him. A wounded combatant takes out 3 to 4 other soldiers to get him back to safety/medical support. Anybody remember Charlie in Viet Nam. You can win every battle and still lose the war on logistics. You don't always want to kill the other guy, sometimes it's better just to hurt him bad. Last but not least, if the US military adopts such a round, sooner or later IT IS GOING TO BE USED IN RETALIAtION.

Think on it.

blindhari
 
I've got to question that old saw about a wounded man taking out 3-4 other men. Sure that's true, but modern war is becoming more and more a guerrilla/terrorist/counterinsurgency type of warfare. The insurgents want us dead because dead GI's and flag draped coffins are what make the headlines. We want them dead because wounded insurgents recover and plant more bombs.
 
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