birddog
Member
Might want to check your facts. Deer herds are exploding. Coyote populations are exploding.
To each his own, but what you said is not correct.
To each his own, but what you said is not correct.
Can't Shoot That
- Thread starter lizziedog1
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TCB in TN
Member
I don't have any problem shooting any animal. There are some I don't have any desire to hunt any more, but nothing I "can't shoot".
I farmed for some time, and there are NO animals that attack my stock that I have any problem shooting. I love dogs and cats, but any animal that attacks my stock is going to get eliminated if I can.
I farmed for some time, and there are NO animals that attack my stock that I have any problem shooting. I love dogs and cats, but any animal that attacks my stock is going to get eliminated if I can.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Been lots of threads on this general subject. As near as I can tell, one's background is the "nurture over nature" source of opinion.
As example, a good bit of my younger years were involved with farming and ranching at my grandparent's place. So, I helped doctor calves for screw-worms, watched hog-killing, and helped with Sunday dinner: I caught the hen and wrung its neck before turning the rest of the chore over to my grandmother.
I did in a fair number of snakes and possum-type pests around the henhouse. Feral cats and dogs, as well.
Most of my actual hunting has been for deer, dove and quail. Edibles. But a big-horned buck cooks up just as tasty as a doe, if you know what you're doing.
I've done a fair amount of varmint hunting, although I've never been fanatical about it. It's generally a matter of numbers: Lots of coyotes, okay; when numbers drop, why bother?
So I've never gotten very excited about killing or not killing, whatever the critter...
As example, a good bit of my younger years were involved with farming and ranching at my grandparent's place. So, I helped doctor calves for screw-worms, watched hog-killing, and helped with Sunday dinner: I caught the hen and wrung its neck before turning the rest of the chore over to my grandmother.
I did in a fair number of snakes and possum-type pests around the henhouse. Feral cats and dogs, as well.
Most of my actual hunting has been for deer, dove and quail. Edibles. But a big-horned buck cooks up just as tasty as a doe, if you know what you're doing.
I've done a fair amount of varmint hunting, although I've never been fanatical about it. It's generally a matter of numbers: Lots of coyotes, okay; when numbers drop, why bother?
So I've never gotten very excited about killing or not killing, whatever the critter...
Daniel Boone
Member
Well - here is the situation as I see it.
You are not a hunter.
I might be better off to call you a conservationist - because you are not out to shoot everything you see - maybe if it was something that you could eat - you could justify shooting it..
Me personally - I do not have a hard time shooting anything.
'be it your dog or mine, tame or wild - rabid or just too old to hunt anymore.
There is only two reasons to hunt coyotes in my opinion.
Either to cut back the number of coyotes which would be a in the name of conservationism or to shoot one or two so you could brag that you shot one or to get rid of the coyote population because you are a farmer / rancher and it is doing damage to your livestock.
I also cannot see any reason to shoot pigeons / doves etc.., but in some for instances there are too many of them and they deserve to be shot.
Some people shoots them as a sport while other people manages it so as to make a living off people willing to pay to shoot them.
I have no problem with that.
The one thing that ruins our sport is these so called Bambi movies that Walt Disney came out with a long time ago which gave personification to living animals where they could talk, act and feel like human beings.
Deer and other animals do not have feelings.
Yes they do feel hurt for a minute when you stick a bullet through them, but god put them her for us to eat and enjoy and there is nothing wrong with watching them, but to confuse them with pets is just plain wrong.
Wild animals belongs in the wild and no amount of fence will make them feel at home in captivity. I can personally speak for all the wild animals in the world when I say that I would rather live one week in the wild then to live a lifetime in captivity.
So trying to tame and to feed wild animals in my opinion is just plain wrong.
Take for instance BO BO the bear, the largest bear on record to be shot in a long time in Pennsylvania. It lived its entire life without fear of humans because it was brought up by humans and was hand fed to the point of where it didn't bother no one and the people who lived in the Pocono's - that Knew Bo Bo - didn't want it shot.
Then along comes a bow hunter that wants to get his name in the trophy books and he comes along and shoots it and the PGC says that it was perfectly legal because no one owns the wild animals in Pennsylvania and no one had the right to keep feeding it as long as they did.
The people in that town would like to kill the bow hunter that shot that bear and I can tell you personally that he is not welcome there anymore and that there is probably some type of bounty out on that bow hunter and I wouldn't be surprised if the number of posted signs in that area has gone up proportionally because of one persons actions.
So - as being a member of the hunting community - I have to agree with the local people and say that any wild animal that was shot by unscrupulous means to attain a trophy - is no longer considered a trophy in my book and that man should be prosecuted for shooting a tame animal just the same as if you went across the street and shot your neighbors dog (Timber Wolf) while it was taking a poop in their front yard.
Would you get it mounted, would you want your picture in the news paper for shooting the largest Timber Wolf ever shot on record?
Would you want your name in a record book for doing it?
It isn't a record unless it was came by honestly.
Do you want to shoot raccoons in a park? Probably not!
Would you shoot a raccoon on a raccoon hunt in the middle of the woods at 3 AM in the morning after the dogs chased it 3 miles - probably so.
The one is hunting and the other is just shooting.
Can you see my point?
I am a hunter, I wear hunting clothes, I practice my trade in the woods.
A shooter is a person that just rides around or sits in a tree stand on their property and shoots at targets of opportunity.
You are not a hunter.
I might be better off to call you a conservationist - because you are not out to shoot everything you see - maybe if it was something that you could eat - you could justify shooting it..
Me personally - I do not have a hard time shooting anything.
'be it your dog or mine, tame or wild - rabid or just too old to hunt anymore.
There is only two reasons to hunt coyotes in my opinion.
Either to cut back the number of coyotes which would be a in the name of conservationism or to shoot one or two so you could brag that you shot one or to get rid of the coyote population because you are a farmer / rancher and it is doing damage to your livestock.
I also cannot see any reason to shoot pigeons / doves etc.., but in some for instances there are too many of them and they deserve to be shot.
Some people shoots them as a sport while other people manages it so as to make a living off people willing to pay to shoot them.
I have no problem with that.
The one thing that ruins our sport is these so called Bambi movies that Walt Disney came out with a long time ago which gave personification to living animals where they could talk, act and feel like human beings.
Deer and other animals do not have feelings.
Yes they do feel hurt for a minute when you stick a bullet through them, but god put them her for us to eat and enjoy and there is nothing wrong with watching them, but to confuse them with pets is just plain wrong.
Wild animals belongs in the wild and no amount of fence will make them feel at home in captivity. I can personally speak for all the wild animals in the world when I say that I would rather live one week in the wild then to live a lifetime in captivity.
So trying to tame and to feed wild animals in my opinion is just plain wrong.
Take for instance BO BO the bear, the largest bear on record to be shot in a long time in Pennsylvania. It lived its entire life without fear of humans because it was brought up by humans and was hand fed to the point of where it didn't bother no one and the people who lived in the Pocono's - that Knew Bo Bo - didn't want it shot.
Then along comes a bow hunter that wants to get his name in the trophy books and he comes along and shoots it and the PGC says that it was perfectly legal because no one owns the wild animals in Pennsylvania and no one had the right to keep feeding it as long as they did.
The people in that town would like to kill the bow hunter that shot that bear and I can tell you personally that he is not welcome there anymore and that there is probably some type of bounty out on that bow hunter and I wouldn't be surprised if the number of posted signs in that area has gone up proportionally because of one persons actions.
So - as being a member of the hunting community - I have to agree with the local people and say that any wild animal that was shot by unscrupulous means to attain a trophy - is no longer considered a trophy in my book and that man should be prosecuted for shooting a tame animal just the same as if you went across the street and shot your neighbors dog (Timber Wolf) while it was taking a poop in their front yard.
Would you get it mounted, would you want your picture in the news paper for shooting the largest Timber Wolf ever shot on record?
Would you want your name in a record book for doing it?
It isn't a record unless it was came by honestly.
Do you want to shoot raccoons in a park? Probably not!
Would you shoot a raccoon on a raccoon hunt in the middle of the woods at 3 AM in the morning after the dogs chased it 3 miles - probably so.
The one is hunting and the other is just shooting.
Can you see my point?
I am a hunter, I wear hunting clothes, I practice my trade in the woods.
A shooter is a person that just rides around or sits in a tree stand on their property and shoots at targets of opportunity.
AKElroy
Member
I think every decent hunter with an ounce of humanity wants the best shot and the least suffering. I was sitting in a ground blind early this season with my 9 year old son, watching several does at my feeder. My son wanted me to take one, and was begging me to take a head shot. I told him we don't do that. He asked why, and I explained that if I missed, I could take off a jaw & leave the animal with a wound that would not kill, but would cause them to starve or die of thirst while dealing with the pain. Not a good end.
We had a hunter 4 weeks ago do EXACTLY THAT. We actually found a part of the animals jaw at the point of impact, Very little blood. 3 hours of looking & no sign of the animal. Horrible way to go. The hunter felt terrible, and I know that is not a shot he will attempt again. He found the doe dead the following weekend, ruined. What a waste.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
A major part of the hunting ethic is the quick, clean kill. The majority of bucks I've seen hanging in coolers looked to me to have been hit where that sort of kill was what had happened.
Ever notice how some folks who decry hunting will drive a car down the road at 80?
Me, I sorta worry more about people than critters, generally...
Ever notice how some folks who decry hunting will drive a car down the road at 80?
Me, I sorta worry more about people than critters, generally...
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Mp7
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. Just because you killed a trophy, does that mean you can't eat it?
I've got a couple of "trophy" deer on the wall which were also consumed, so what part of that trophy hunt was "nasty"?
Arkansas Paul
Member
I have no trouble killing anything that tastes good. I'm at the top of the food chain (at least here in Arkansas). That's how it works.
I also have no trouble killing yotes or feral dogs. I don't go out just shooting everything I see though.
I'm at the top of the food chain (at least here in Arkansas). That's how it works.I also have no trouble killing yotes or feral dogs. I don't go out just shooting everything I see though.
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Alright I'm not trying to be jerk here but I want to get a couple of terminology things straight.
The Anti hunting community uses terms like "sport" and "trophy" hunting to degrade our lifestyle. And to try and take it away from us by misinformation and spreading falsities with the general public.
We are all "sport hunters" some of us are "trophy hunters" unless you are a commercial hunter a poacher or a pure by need substance hunter you are sport hunting. Sometimes when we sport hunt we strive to kill a very good trophy which I guess makes us "trophy Hunters". Neither of which implies that we break game laws by wantonly wasting edible game meat which is ILLEGAL in every state in the USA AFAIK!
If a guy is shooting trophy animals cutting off the head and leaving the carcass he is POACHING not trophy hunting or sport hunting. If a guy shoots a big trophy head then packs the meat out as required by law but only keeps the choice cuts and the head and cape and donates the rest of the meat to friends, family or persons in need I see no reason why that person should be classified as a lesser or unethical hunter.
I only bring this up because we are a very popular site and attract multiple thousands of viewers each year. I would hate to think that we are fueling the misconceptions of the general public by our own ignorance of the facts and misuse of terminology.
The Anti hunting community uses terms like "sport" and "trophy" hunting to degrade our lifestyle. And to try and take it away from us by misinformation and spreading falsities with the general public.
We are all "sport hunters" some of us are "trophy hunters" unless you are a commercial hunter a poacher or a pure by need substance hunter you are sport hunting. Sometimes when we sport hunt we strive to kill a very good trophy which I guess makes us "trophy Hunters". Neither of which implies that we break game laws by wantonly wasting edible game meat which is ILLEGAL in every state in the USA AFAIK!
If a guy is shooting trophy animals cutting off the head and leaving the carcass he is POACHING not trophy hunting or sport hunting. If a guy shoots a big trophy head then packs the meat out as required by law but only keeps the choice cuts and the head and cape and donates the rest of the meat to friends, family or persons in need I see no reason why that person should be classified as a lesser or unethical hunter.
I only bring this up because we are a very popular site and attract multiple thousands of viewers each year. I would hate to think that we are fueling the misconceptions of the general public by our own ignorance of the facts and misuse of terminology.
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birddog
Member
H&H, great post. Good to seeya. I took a few year hiatus from THR.
Interesting how things have changed....
Interesting how things have changed....
Arkansas Paul
Member
Great post H&H. My feelings exactly.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Omitting poaching issues, basically we have sport hunting and subsistence hunting. In general in the lower 48, there's no real need for subsistence hunting.
But if you want to eat game meat, you're gonna be a sport hunter. Venison is not sold at your friendly Hoggly-Woggly or A&Poo Feed Store. It's called a sport in that there are rules--set up originally at the behest of hunters as a group. WE started this whole deal about seasons and limits and suchlike. Fair chase and the ethics of a clean kill: Those came from us, the hunters.
The only real difference between a trophy hunter and any other sport hunter is that the trophy hunter adds more of a challenge into his hunt. You want a really big whitetail buck? To do any real good you must think like a deer. They're not covered all over with stupid and they practice being a deer some 365 days a year. How many days do you try to think like a deer?
Poachers? Thieves and cheats. They steal opportunity from other hunters, for one thing. And they cheat the game animal of its right to fair chase, and that's worse.
But if you want to eat game meat, you're gonna be a sport hunter. Venison is not sold at your friendly Hoggly-Woggly or A&Poo Feed Store. It's called a sport in that there are rules--set up originally at the behest of hunters as a group. WE started this whole deal about seasons and limits and suchlike. Fair chase and the ethics of a clean kill: Those came from us, the hunters.
The only real difference between a trophy hunter and any other sport hunter is that the trophy hunter adds more of a challenge into his hunt. You want a really big whitetail buck? To do any real good you must think like a deer. They're not covered all over with stupid and they practice being a deer some 365 days a year. How many days do you try to think like a deer?
Poachers? Thieves and cheats. They steal opportunity from other hunters, for one thing. And they cheat the game animal of its right to fair chase, and that's worse.
metalman8600
member
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Wolf, bear, large cat, young deer.
I've never hunted any game or varmit that I was unable to pull thew trigger on when the time came to do so. Its not that I don't find wildlife beautiful, or that I let the thrill of the kill overcome the sadness that tends to come with death. Feeling that sadness, to me, is a sign of respect for the animal you are hunting. If I didn't feel it, I think , as someone else previously said I believe, it would be time for me to quit hunting. Once it becomes more about the kill than the hunt, once it becomes more about horns than memories, and when a lack of a kill means going home angry...... its not hunting anymore, and I want no part of it. Thats not to say harvesting a trophy doesn't make me happy, or that there haven't been hunts that have disappointed me in a sense. However, hunting stirs some emotion deep inside of me that tells me what I'm doing is "right" and that emotion drives me into the field year after year, in search of those moments that make life worht living....or , as it may sometimes be, worth taking......
jim in Anchorage
Member
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I have no issue with shooting and not eating.Who wants to eat a Wolf?[they make wonderful winter coats, however.]
Not familiar with the predator situation in the lower 48, but in Alaska wolfs/bears take a huge toll on the spring moose/caribou calves and I have no problem shooting them.
Not familiar with the predator situation in the lower 48, but in Alaska wolfs/bears take a huge toll on the spring moose/caribou calves and I have no problem shooting them.
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I understand not shooting it unless you eat it but there are some places that the population is so out of control, there's actually a bounty on the animal. I'm speaking mainly of coyotes. I use to live in a town in Washington called Moses Lake. The coyote population was so high & their damage to the cow, sheep & chicken farmers so bad, that F&G put a $25 bounty on them. I wouldn't eat a coyote but $25 a yote is a good way to make some extra cash.
As for the Wolf issue, I now live in Idaho & it's a big issue here with the locals. It has split communties in half. There was a hunting season for them but then a judge in Montana over ruled it as I understand. My wife works for Idaho F&G & being a hunter it's hard to know which side to choose. The wolf population in Idaho was very low so F&G introduced the smaller Timber wolves to increase populations. These smallerTimbers started breeding with the larger Canadians wolves & now we have huge packs of cross breeds that range in the 300lbs. I saw one cross a road once that from tip of the tail to the tip of his nose went from the center line in the road to the line on the side of the road. These wolves are huge!! The problem faced now is these monster wolves are attacking & deceasing the Elk population. Though we do have a lot of deer here, those population figures are dropping as well because of the overwhelming coyote population.
Respect for the kill, yes I feel that everytime, but everytime I make that kill I'm doing it for a reason so I feel no guilt.
As for the Wolf issue, I now live in Idaho & it's a big issue here with the locals. It has split communties in half. There was a hunting season for them but then a judge in Montana over ruled it as I understand. My wife works for Idaho F&G & being a hunter it's hard to know which side to choose. The wolf population in Idaho was very low so F&G introduced the smaller Timber wolves to increase populations. These smallerTimbers started breeding with the larger Canadians wolves & now we have huge packs of cross breeds that range in the 300lbs. I saw one cross a road once that from tip of the tail to the tip of his nose went from the center line in the road to the line on the side of the road. These wolves are huge!! The problem faced now is these monster wolves are attacking & deceasing the Elk population. Though we do have a lot of deer here, those population figures are dropping as well because of the overwhelming coyote population.
Respect for the kill, yes I feel that everytime, but everytime I make that kill I'm doing it for a reason so I feel no guilt.
.
Excuse me? I've always believed "timber" wolves and "Canadian" wolves to be one and the same.....I've never seen any indication that they were to be regarded as seperate species....aren't both more commonly known as the gray wolf?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf
Upon further research, it seems that I am right...."timber" and "Canadian" are just different names for the same critter--the gray wolf
lizziedog1
Member
Was there elk in the cross-breeding too?
jim in Anchorage
Member
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God that would be a hell of a wolf. Or are you talking the whole pack?
birddog
Member
I've been a longtime hunter of big critters, and this really set off my built-in, shockproof, BS detector, so I did about .9 seconds of research. No offense, friend.
Your wolves are almost twice the size of the largest ever recorded?
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BD,
Strange and unusual things happen on this site from time to time. We've had a 2,500 lb elk, a 180 MPH deer which after being questioned slowed down to 90 MPH, and now a 300 lb wolf. We also have a guy who can shoot and consistently kill game with his 7MM at over 900 yards.
I'm starting to think that we just have some super talented people and some extraterrestrial genetics occurring on this site.
Surely that must be what it is...Right?
Strange and unusual things happen on this site from time to time. We've had a 2,500 lb elk, a 180 MPH deer which after being questioned slowed down to 90 MPH, and now a 300 lb wolf. We also have a guy who can shoot and consistently kill game with his 7MM at over 900 yards.
I'm starting to think that we just have some super talented people and some extraterrestrial genetics occurring on this site.
Surely that must be what it is...Right?
birddog
Member
I guess that squelches my story about shooting a 2600 pound elk, running at 190mph (was being chased by a 320 pound timberwolf / chihuahua hybrid) with my .22mag at 1000 yards.
I'll save it for another day....
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