Wolves: A New Target?

[cliffy]

Wolves are getting dense in population: Not a great scenario regarding other life on our planet. When 2000 wolves can and willfully will kill 37,000 ungulates per year, what will the current estimate of 50,000 American wolves kill eat and/or abandon for sport? What food supply will satiate Wolves after the Elk and Deer are gone? Worse, wolves are free-breeders, regarding dogs and coyotes. Pure breed Gray wolves may soon be a concept of the past. "Wol-Yotes, Coy-dogs, and Wol-coy-dogs will soon make it difficult for a Wolf Hunter to determine what's actually being hunted. Thus far Safari International has legally stopped all Mutant Wolves from being hunted. Never "Cry Wolf" unless one kills your pet dog or cat. The problems encountered by European Wolves, should send out a scream and a hunting barrage into the wilds and suburbia regarding harassing wolves back into fearing humans. Without the fear of human intervention, wolves will dominate mankind for decades to come. cliffy

 

[mio]

in the up the wolves are killing and eating bird dogs

 

[cliffy]

Them Nasty Wolves!

Wolves are voracious carnivores, and I thank PETA and other green groups for returning them to us, hunters, for no one else can appreciate the terror they shall bring once they hit one million in number. Only 50,000 estimated thus far with a 30% increase-per-year spells certain ecological disaster. Or maybe they'll dwell on eating the uncontrollable influx of Wild Boars/Hogs. Cliffy

 

[tigre]

Population growth generally slows as resources become less abundant and competition increases with other species. There really isn't any danger of wolves taking over the country like a plague. Increased numbers of natural predators would actually help a great deal in many areas to control the overabundant deer populations that actually are causing serious ecological and economic problems. In regard to cross-breeding with other species, it's biologically possible, but probably not really a viable strategy for wolves on a large scale due to the differences in natural social structure and mating behavior between different species of canines.

 

[buck460XVR]

in the up the wolves are killing and eating bird dogs

owned bird dogs all my life. Ain't no wolf gonna attack a bird dog in daylight hours that remains within a reasonable range of a hunter(human). Wolves in the lower 48 just ain't that brazen around humans......any bird dog that is runnin' loose farther than that deserves to be wolf bait. A bigger threat would be to Coon hounds at night or coyote/bobcat dogs that are running scent at considerable distance from their owners. But then these dogs are exposed to other risks greater than wolf attacks...i.e. hit by motor vehicles, lost/hung up on something/porcupines, etc. Wolf attacks real or imaginary are exploited and embellished by the media.....mostly due to the "Little Red Riding Hood" syndrome.

Wolves are voracious carnivores, and I thank PETA and other green groups for returning them to us, hunters, for no one else can appreciate the terror they shall bring once they hit one million in number. Only 50,000 estimated thus far with a 30% increase-per-year spells certain ecological disaster.

I believe it was the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that reintroduced the wolves, not PETA. They were reintroduced to stabilize a ecosystem that was being trampled and browsed into barren ground thanks to the eradication of apex predators. IMHO, those hunters that are afraid the wolves are going to eat all THEIR personal game animals are hunters that are generally unsuccessful and seek an excuse for their shortcomings. In the thousands of years before European man came to this country, wolves never eradicated one single species of wild game. Can't say the same for European man once they got here.

Most wolf cross breedings do not occur naturally....but occur mainly because of captivity. In the wild only the alpha male and female mate and then only if there is enough food to support more wolves in the area. Captive wolves lose this social order and will then breed with other canines. Wild wolves kill dogs and coyotes not because they enjoy the kill or want to eat them, but mainly to eliminate the competition for available food.

Don't like wolves.....fine. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But don't insult our intelligence by pushin' far fetched stories of ecological disaster, fantasy and old wives tales to strengthen your argument......

 

[Jst1mr]

Buck460XVR...

Agree, mostly, BUT - wolves are notorious in this area for killing bear hunting dogs, especially while training. (Granted, they are ranging further than most bird dogs!). In northern MN, wolves have been known to take domestic pets off tethers/chains within the confines of their yard, and some farmers suffer catastrophic loss of young stock in this area. I believe wolves have their place, but should be managed to control their numbers. We are way beyond counting on the "balance of nature" to balance predator/prey relationships...in fact, "balance" is a misnomer, as nature tends to "control" populations in wild, cruel swings that most of us do not want to experience. Seeing a wolf in the wild is cool, but as their population grows (artificially, with all the easy prey we provide) they need to be managed.

 

[MountainWalk]

As a guide in the Bitterroot Mt's of Montana along the Idaho border, I spend much time in the far up hills. While I have noticed that wolves tend to concentrate the elk more and inhibit bugling, I haven't noticed any reduction in herd sizes or conditions. Folks cry for a wolf season and vow to kill one, I can assure you, a wolf is a critter that doent lend itself to standing around waiting to be shot. I don't think it's all gloom and doom.

 

[Dksimon]

I dont think that the numbers are so drastic that we need to start picking them off.

Even so, i dont think they would be an easy animal to hunt and kill.

 

[22-rimfire]

We'll see, I'll leave this one up to the wildlife managers in terms of population and migration out from the traditional ranges at the present time.

I have no objection to a hunting or trapping season, especially in Alaska. I don't approve of shooting them from planes or other aircraft or otherwise running them to a shooting area with such aircraft. My guess is that wolf hunting will be primarily elk and deer hunters taking shots of opportunity that present themselves.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm all for Alaska's fish and game using airplanes, and issuing controlled permits to make money, if they deem it necessary to drop the wolf population in an area.

If you don't understand why airplanes are the only option for doing so in some cases, you haven't seen Alaska.

 

[22-rimfire]

I understand the remoteness of Alaska. I look at it from a cost persepective and flying aircraft specifically to hunt wolves does not sound very cost effective.

 

[ArmedBear]

Sending people out in Unimogs to trample the land and camp out for weeks on end, looking for a few wolves, is what's not cost effective.

 

[Art Eatman]

Ten gallons of AvGas per hour for a few hours of adequate success is less costly than three gallons of autogas per hour for several days of little success. It's a $$$ per wolf thing. And, of course we're not talking about what's called sport hunting; it's predator control.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Interesting timing as I just saw my first wolves in about 17 years this morning. Driving to work on Route 81 near Shenandoah National park (Virginia) and there were three of them trotting along the fenceline of a field just a bold as brass.

 

[Cosmoline]

I understand the remoteness of Alaska. I look at it from a cost persepective and flying aircraft specifically to hunt wolves does not sound very cost effective

The alternative is an old-school mass poisoning, where lethal meat is left around for the wolf packs to find. They share the catch of course, and feed it to the pups. But that method is difficult to control or limit.

The use of aircraft to hunt is nothing new. You HAVE to use an aircraft to hunt in most GMU's up here unless you drift in. Under normal regs though you cannot hunt anything, including wolves, until a full day after being airborne. The rules on certain GMU's exempt hunters of wolves from this requirement. So they can fly around, spot the pack, land and coordinate an immediate hunt.

Even so, the results have not been too overwhelming. Wolves are incredibly smart animals. I like having them around. Like the great bear they keep humans and prey animals on our toes.

 

[tinygnat219]

Cliffy,

What clan of Garou are you?

Wolves are getting dense in population: Not a great scenario regarding other life on our planet. When 2000 wolves can and willfully will kill 37,000 ungulates per year, what will the current estimate of 50,000 American wolves kill eat and/or abandon for sport? What food supply will satiate Wolves after the Elk and Deer are gone? Worse, wolves are free-breeders, regarding dogs and coyotes. Pure breed Gray wolves may soon be a concept of the past. "Wol-Yotes, Coy-dogs, and Wol-coy-dogs will soon make it difficult for a Wolf Hunter to determine what's actually being hunted. Thus far Safari International has legally stopped all Mutant Wolves from being hunted. Never "Cry Wolf" unless one kills your pet dog or cat. The problems encountered by European Wolves, should send out a scream and a hunting barrage into the wilds and suburbia regarding harassing wolves back into fearing humans. Without the fear of human intervention, wolves will dominate mankind for decades to come.

Sounds like a Red Talon with some guidance from a Glass Walker. THAT alone is something that's not supposed to happen but it has.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Ten gallons of AvGas per hour for a few hours of adequate success is less costly than three gallons of autogas per hour for several days of little success. It's a $$$ per wolf thing. And, of course we're not talking about what's called sport hunting; it's predator control.

Umm, yeah, but wouldn't just letting HUNTERS use THEIR gas and other resources on their hunt for wolves, as their chosen use of their entertainment dollar, be even far MORE efficient than the state hunting them from air? As in, $0 dollars per wolf, rather than $X per wolf, from the state's perspective? All's you have to do is expand the season dates, tags, open land, etc., just a bit, and hunters will take care of the rest, like a miracle cure, just as sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. It's just like letting the free market work on an economic problem. Those hunters will find a way to get those pelts & trophies, in even the most remote parts of AK. Then the fish & game dept. MAKES money from tags, instead of losing taxpayer money!

Saying that the state using aircraft to kill wolves is more efficient than the state using land-based parties to kill wolves, is completely ignoring the actual issue of importance, and that is that it's STILL terribly horribly inefficient relative to using hunters, and seems to me to be a huge wasteful squandering of taxpayer money (just like the wildlife dept hunting hogs from helicopters in OK and TX) - stupid, stupid, stupid! :banghead:

 

[Cosmoline]

Ordinary hunters CAN hunt wolves in Alaska. The bag limits are generous, too. Of course they ain't easy to hunt.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Saying that the state using aircraft to kill wolves is more efficient than the state using land-based parties to kill wolves, is completely ignoring the actual issue of importance, and that is that it's STILL terribly horribly inefficient relative to using hunters, and seems to me to be a huge wasteful squandering of taxpayer money (just like the wildlife dept hunting hogs from helicopters in OK and TX) - stupid, stupid, stupid!

I wish I could find my old post to save some typing. Admittedly it had to do with deer but the situation still applies where a locality was all up in arms about "killing bambi" until the deer population exploded and all their expensive landscaping was being browsed to twigs. Then they didn't let the hunters back, they spent a FORTUNE to hire "professional" pest elimination services to try and cull the herd.

 

[22-rimfire]

Last I heard the estimated wolf population in all of Alaska was 15,000 animals. North American population is estimated at 50,000 animals.

15,000 doesn't sound like a huge number to me, but as I said, I'll leave it up to the state to make that decision. I have no dog is this fight. I don't support the animal rights groups making all the noise up there either.

As Art said, it is prediator control. Do what makes the most sense and is cost effective. Hunting sounds cost effective to me. But I suspect they are a tough animal to hunt specifically.

In the lower 48, reasonable hunting requirements for contol seems appropriate to me and would keep the ranchers happy.

 

[Matt-J2]

Supposedly WI DNR is considering opening up a limited wolf season in the near future, to control numbers and reinforce the fear of humans. I don't have any hard facts of said consideration, just what I heard from my instructors(Natural Resources student), so not sure if it's true.

 

[rob b]

why cant wolves be shot or hunted

 

[buck460XVR]

Supposedly WI DNR is considering opening up a limited wolf season in the near future, to control numbers and reinforce the fear of humans. I don't have any hard facts of said consideration, just what I heard from my instructors(Natural Resources student), so not sure if it's true.

yep....heard that too Matt. Tags would probably be drawn lottery style and I have heard the rumor that some tags would be put out for highest bid. Problem is figuring out what is the ''magic'' number of wolves that can safely coexist with us humans, while still helping to control the exploding deer population.

 

[Harve Curry]

rob b ,QUOTE: why cant wolves be shot or hunted?

Because they're protected in the lower 48 states.

 

[Jst1mr]

Matt-J2 - Have heard the same (I live in WI), but expect this to get bogged down by lawsuits, etc. Look how long it took WI to get a dove season!