Cap & Ball Serial Number

[Johnm1]

Can the serial number on an antique gun be changed?

I've been working on a Tribute Gun for 5 or 6 years. Yeah, it's not a high priority. It's a 70's ASM 1860 reproduction and no modifications have been made to change its antique status. I'd like to make the serial number intuitive meaning it will be # XXXX15 indicating there are 14 others yet to be customized.

I've searched the ATF site (and the internet) and other than the definition of an antique and veriying that GCA 68 doesn't apply, I can't find a direct answer. It makes sense that it could be changed because a serial number isn't required. At least by GCA 68. But as we've all read, laws aren't intuitive.

I hate the idea of asking in writing. Depending on who answers the question the answer might be different.

 

[hawg]

Cap and ball guns aren't guns according to the ATF so you can do what you want. On a cartridge gun serial numbers weren't required before 1968 but if a gun was made before 68 and has a serial number you better not get caught defacing it or removing it.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hawg hit it on the head, black powder revolvers cap & ball in specific are free from all those ATF rules unless used in the commission of a crime. There is most likely a date code on it that can be researched to give a production date. Fix the short arbor on it, go shoot it and enjoy it! What are the problems you're working on?

 

[Johnm1]

Hawg hit it on the head, black powder revolvers cap & ball in specific are free from all those ATF rules unless used in the commission of a crime. There is most likely a date code on it that can be researched to give a production date. Fix the short arbor on it, go shoot it and enjoy it! What are the problems you're working on?

Nothing. You tweaked this one when I was down on my first visit. It's just time to do the engraving on the cylinder, blue it and put together the box and accessories. I just haven't been able to finish it yet and the serial number is one of those things left to finish.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Aha, thought you had acquired something new and exciting.

 

[hawg]

Antique status on a repro cap & ball doesn't mean anything.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Many USHS and ARS as well as normal Italian retail commemorative offerings are marked "XX of XXX" to denote their limited numbers. This is in addition to the serial number.

 

[woodnbow]

Nothing. You tweaked this one when I was down on my first visit. It's just time to do the engraving on the cylinder, blue it and put together the box and accessories. I just haven't been able to finish it yet and the serial number is one of those things left to finish.

I had the serial number changed to 1873 during a defarb on an 1858. It’s not a big deal. I’ve also removed the tags from all of our mattresses.

WRT the Antique status of reproductions, it doesn’t mean much except that the fact that they’re copies of originals (Very loosely copied in some cases) so the government has given them a pass. Meanwhile, some are attracting collector interest, very early Uberti and Navy Arms marked guns, some of the Second Generation Colts and the Centaure’s…

 

[Johnm1]

Many USHS and ARS as well as normal Italian retail commemorative offerings are marked "XX of XXX" to denote their limited numbers. This is in addition to the serial number.

Good point.

I had assumed that being they weren't regulated by GCA 68 the serial number could be altered. But that follows a similar thought process that a firearm made before it was required could be removed. We know that's not true, but someone could noodle it out that way and find themselves in a lot of trouble. I just don't want to noodle myself into trouble.

As long as it isn't a crime I'd rather replace it.

 

[woodnbow]

Good point.

I had assumed that being they weren't regulated by GCA 68 the serial number could be altered. But that follows a similar thought process that a firearm made before it was required could be removed. We know that's not true, but someone could noodle it out that way and find themselves in a lot of trouble. I just don't want to noodle myself into trouble.

As long as it isn't a crime I'd rather replace it.

I have knives that bear serial numbers. Obscuring or removing them would attract zero attention from the ATF for,the same reason they wouldn’t care about the serial number on your 1851 Pietta replica. Neither are firearms.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Serial numbers are very important in tracing guns used in crimes back to their owners of record with FFL dealers.
Your Italian Cap and Ball will probably only have had its SN officially associated with the original purchaser if it went through a state that requires it to be sold through an FFL dealer like Illinois.
???Do Cabelas/Midway/etc. maintain records of who they sell each C&B SN to???

 

[45 Dragoon]

Wow, that's a scary thought!!

Mike

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

...???Do Cabelas/Midway/etc. maintain records of who they sell each C&B SN to???

How and why would they?

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

How and why would they?

CYA!!!