Car defense

[DontBurnMyFlag]

Hey everyone,

I was watching a TV show about a police officer who was killed by an ambush in NYC. He was sitting in a parking lot doing paperwork and a thug came up on his passenger side window and said something to distract him, at this point another came up on the driver's side and shot him numerous times to kill him.

This sad story brought up some thoughts of my own. This is for CCW holders and those who live in oppressive states like myself. If you are in a car, and notice two people walking up on opposite sides in an apparent robbery attempt, what do you do? What if you can see one is armed? What if your car isnt on? What if you dont even have your keys yet for whatever reason? Windows down? etc etc.

Ive learned a few tricks on how to disable a carjacker or mugger by using the car/door as a weapon. But if confronted by two or more, I dont have a clue.

Has this ever happened to anybody? Any experiences or advice?

Thanks alot

-Kev

 

[sm]

I am a big fan of GTHOOD

Get The Heck Out Of Dodge

BTDT evaded, did not get hit personally...have had the vehicle not fair so well...

 

[RS3RS]

If at all possible, I would simply drive off. If I can use the car to my advantage in any way, I'll do it. If the ignition is off, then I'd go ahead and turn it on and drive. Ignition off, keys on pocket with windows down and me in the car is NOT a situation I'm going to put myself in in the first place.

If, however, I know for a fact that I can't get close to getting the car running before they get up to it, I'd probably go ahead and just get out of the car. Outside, I can reach for my gun with less difficulty, I can move, I can use the car for cover if need be, and, most importantly - I can run.

I see a car, with you strapped in it and no way to drive off as a pretty bad death trap...

 

[cslinger]

The sad thing is that the ambusher almost always has and keeps the initiative. Sometimes there isn't much you can do.

Chris

 

[Cosmoline]

Excellent thread. I've been trying to hammer home some of these concerns lately. The bottom line is, sitting in a car, esp the driver's seat, seems to give people a false sense of security. In reality, they are strapped down and cannot use their legs or bend their torso. The car body and windshields around them provide almost no protection against bullets or even bricks. Some ideas I've come up with:

--Avoid sitting in your car when you're not driving it.
--Keep an eye out using your mirrors for any approaching nogoodnics.
--Have a handgun within easy reach, preferably next to the stick or in the passenger seat.
--Keep your key in the ignition
--If you see drawn weapons in the hands of those approaching, start the car and do not hesitate to use it as a deadly weapon.
--Whatever you do, never let them into the car. Once they're in, you're DEAD. There's almost no defense you can muster at that point short of sheer dumb luck.
--If you stop in traffic in the city, keep sufficient distance between you and the car ahead so you can turn and get around to the side. Try to keep a curb or shoulder on one side or the other, avoid stopping in the middle of the road.
--Above all, keep moving moving moving moving.

 

[Mannlicher]

Frankly, if a couple of guys want to kill you, and take you by surprise, its difficult to defend against that. Ambush, as an offensive tactic is very successful.

 

[James T Thomas]

mean streets

Agreement with cslinger; your in a bad situation. The military recommendation for those caught like that? "Immediate Action" drill; go on the immediate offensive. The suprise may gain you something, if the ambushers have not yet reached the point in their approach where they are now rolling.

Not only give yourself tailgate room for driving away on the road, but park that way also, if you can. That is, choose a spot that is spacious. Then park closer to the car in the rear, so that you obtain front room to allow a quick swing and exit in one move. Not so easy in croweded cities though.

If, however, you are out of time. The ambushers have commited to the assault phase. Are you right handed? An exit on the drivers side would give you cover on your left and right hand exposure for engagement.
Is the approaching passenger side attacker coming in at a sidewalk distance, to afford himself a better view, while the driver side attacker is hugging the fenders of the parked cars behind? Perhaps an exit on the passenger side. The sidewalk target is exposed, and the car body is between you and his street side accomplice.

This is simply conjecture, but it comes from a experience guided outlook.

 

[Ryder]

I had a guy leaning on my open passenger widow with a pistol in hand once. He was aquainted with a passenger in my back seat and they were sharing harsh opinions. He did not threaten to use the gun nor did he attempt to point it into the car. I believe he was holding the pistol as protection.

If I thought the gun was going to be used I'd have floored the gas pedal. Car was in reverse and the front wheels cranked to left while he was still approaching from two steps away. My plan was to park the car on top of him. Guns were not allowed in vehicles back then, yet open carry was legal.

It wasn't bumper to bumper but there was a vehicle stopped in front of us and one behind us. You can't always count on being able to drive away and even if you could you know you can't outrun a bullet (even in a car). I don't advise others but I will say that standing my ground against an attacker hasn't gotten me killed (or imprisoned) yet.

 

[Ivy Mike]

There were a rash of carjackings at a local mall a few years back around the Christmas holiday. The young punks would smash the car window to avoid a locked door and would order the people out at knife or gun point.

Finally, they tried it on a quickthinking man who grabbed the carjacker by the wrist and raked the forearm over the remnants of the shattered window.

The punk was caught at the hospital when he was being stitched up.

 

[gunsmith]

I would yell

something out the window to make them think you have a friend or your a cop on a stake out....

like "hey Frank are you 10 -8 on that perp"?

Or "Frank stop looking out the window and get down here"...

if you are in a state that prohibits weapons you can get a master cable padlock

the one I had was great, the cable is about three feet long and is very flexible and steel. It hurts so bad... if you get them in the face they must stop!

unbelievable pain and damage, a very effective "secret" weapon.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Good idea on that padlock. Looks like the gun locks. How ironic....i'm so putting one of my spare gun locks in the glovebox!!

Alot of this discussion comes down to your mental state. An ambush won't happen as easily if you are aware of your surroundings. What is the average person sitting in a car doing? Listing to the radio, talking on the phone etc. People feel safe in their cars, but they're not. Keep your head moving around and observe what's going on. Peoplewatching is generally more intersting than the radio anyways.

When I'm in my car, keys are in the ignition, and I am ready to go at anytime. If I am in the car for more than about 5 minutes waiting on someone, I go into the store or where ever to see what's up.

I read alot of scary cop stories like that where the cop is on break in his car or doing paperwork and gets approached. Situations like that would be much harder to deal with since you would find yourself in them more often than most. I honestly don't know what I would do in those situations because I'm not a cop, but I would imagine I'd still have keys in ignition. And, I bet I'd flip the lights on, pick up my mike and act like I was communicating or something similar. Probably getting my department issued sidearm ready as well.

 

[LAK]

When you work in a profession where you are a high risk, if statistically low probability target, you must really spend every working, and perhaps non-working, minute in condition yellow. And with the focussed observation of a bodyguard. You're own bodyguard. Any time you are not in a controlled and secure environment - or place where you will be alerted to anyone's approach or intrusion with sufficient time to act. Because your survival will likely depend more on spotting trouble before it is on top of you and too late than anything else.

It's tall order, but remains the bottom line.

----------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Fire4Effect]

I know I just posted a rather lengthy thread on preparedness but this idea on car protection I actually got from the IED's used in Iraq, except it works on the principal of a percieved threat greater than the one the BG's are posing. As I work nights, and the only 24hr convenience store borders one of the rougher neighborhoods where people will walk up to your car and ask for money, rides, etc at 3:00am, this what I did. I can already hear the collective moans, groans, gasps, and "oh my God's" at the mere suggestion of this, and actually I now think it's best not to even post it...

 

[FireBreather01]

This might work!!!

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Where I grew up, it was pretty common for the street runners to jump in random cars and ask for rides "just down to the nex block". I got surprised as a teenager once or twice by this and gave rides. Once you get a block down the street, they change their tune and say "Just let me ride down the street a little ways to my cousin's house." Of course, they're scoping out your car and you and seeing if you're a mark or not.

One tactic I never had to try was riding the guy down a block and when he asked for a ride farther, putting a wheelgun barrel to his temple and telling him to get out. I never had to do that. Though, I imagine someone somewhere did do something that irresponsible and reprehensible. If he did, then it got his rep out there as the guy who's car you don't jump into randomly.
Since I was a teen, I've dealt with stuff like that. You always maintain situational awareness. If someone approaches, you get the ironmongery handy. You don't give rides, you don't talk to people you don't know without studying them. Now, I ride a motorcycle everywhere (just about) and lots of guys get bitch tackled off their bikes at intersections and get their bikes stolen. So, I stay alert with that in mind.
The guys who want to ambush you will do so. All you can do is be aware, watch where you park. Don't try to be Neal Pert or Carter Beauford with your steering wheel with the radio up loud. Keep the noise down, stay alert, and watch.
People who approach my car (a 54 Ford 2 door) are usually admirers in their middle age. But, that makes no difference to me.
I can't live in condition white. I learned too early in life. People get carjacked. I may be one of them. And, I won't get shot or killed over my car or bike. But, I'll be darned if I make it easy.

 

[benEzra]

If I were sitting in the car in a questionable area, the car would be running. If I were just there for a short time (stopping to check a map, etc.), the car would probably be in Drive, with my foot on the brake. I do this when I'm visiting a drive-up ATM; turn the radio OFF, watch the mirrors, car is in drive, wheels pointed in the right direction to GO if need be. Somebody starts to walk up to the car, I'm outta there.

SWAT magazine had an article last year sometime on scenarios similar to this one. Using roleplaying with simunitions/airsoft or whatever, they found that feigned compliance (reaching for your seatbelt, etc.) followed by a stomp on the gas would always beat the guy with the gun; he literally couldn't react fast enough to shoot the driver if the driver did that, as I recall. Of course, if you're driving a Yugo or a Volkswagen van, you may be out of luck...the assailant could walk fast enough to keep up with you...

If you're caught in the car in traffic and can't do that, I would exit the car (feigning compliance or whatever) rather than sit there and be a stationary target for the guy who might want to shoot you in the head. At least that keeps your options open, and if you then choose to run, you might get behind cover (another parked car) before the assailant could react.

I think the concept of the car AS the weapon is a good one. Reminds me of the old gun board sig line, "Want knockdown power? Get a Buick..."

 

[ball3006]

In Texas the courts have....

upheld your right to use deadly force if attacked while strapped in your vehicle. If someone jumps in my car, kinda hard as I keep the doors locked, or they break a window, they WILL be shot. The wife and I discuss situations were one or both of us are attacked while in the car. If I cannot shoot them, I will grab their arm and wipe them off against a building or other structure with the gas pedal floored. I am stronger than the average guy and they will not be able to pull free once I have ahold of them. I very rarely go anywhere at night except the gym, a real gym, not a social club. What punk is going to attack a very large powerlifter for his gym bag.........chris3

 

[gunsmith]

the lock

I used looked like that, only the cable was longer.
you leave it unlocked and use the lock as the handle.

I also used the lock to lock my full face helmet to me motorcycle.