Carjacking senario

[shooter71]

ok go easy on me..its my first senario

in a carjacking senario with a guy at your car window pointing a firearm at you and demanding you get out do you:

A. get out and watch the guy drive off with your car

B. get out while inconspicuously drawing your own firearm and when the guy gets behind the wheel you let him have it

C. "put what you would do here"

 

[DogBonz]

answer "A"

My car is insured, and probably for more than I could sell it for. That guy just did me a favor.

 

[kludge]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_(flamethrower)


But seriously, I would C) have doors locked at all times while in the car, D) never stop so close behind someone that I could not perform an evasive maneuver, and E) duck and step on the gas. If the carjacker is in the way, oh well.

 

[Odd Job]

If you're in South Africa and the hijacker is at your side window with a drawn gun, you just lost your car. You make a move, the chances are you also lose your life.
There have been out-of-car success stories though (I won't post those here because some tactics are best left undiscussed). But if it was me I wouldn't try anything from within the car if he was already at my window.
But that is South Africa, where you can get shot dead even after handing over the keys to your car, or after handing over your wallet and phone. Those hijackers there don't give a damn about life and they are much more likely to shoot if you make a wrong move.

 

[shooter71]

EDIT

i forgot to put ..

if you cant drive off, as in, a car in front of you and one on either side like it would be in a mall parking lot

 

[shooter71]

holy crap kludge !!

lol

 

[shooter71]

well i know i wouldnt shoot while in the car..since i wouldnt have the high ground and shooting through the glass would be a negative also since id have to look away unless i wanted glass in my eye....but when the dude sits down hopefully in the split second he had the door open..stick a gun to his head and reverse the drill

i wonder if a DA could turn that around and say i entrapped the guy into a confrontation..i guess it the legal aspect as to why i havent filed my CCW paperwork ..i want it but dont want it ..anybody else go through this or is it just me?

 

[sm]

What I did.

Preface: I had an interesting job description some say...

1. Approached from passenger side.
I had left enough room between me and vehicle ahead. No oncoming traffic being 1am out of state, I went into oncoming lane and hauled butt.

2. Locally. Three folks, again at stoplight, during daylight hours, one on driver's side, two passengers. Again having left room b/t myself and vehicle ahead, but could not go to outside lane, I went into oncoming lane and one jumped into bed of truck. I took a 'hard' left, and I mean hard and fast and he fell out of truck bed.

3. Parking lot out of town. Approached as I got into vehicle from driver's side, in reverse, whipped the wheel and hit the gas, hitting person and I had a big parking lot to keep going in reverse really fast.

4.Too many years ago - I hate parking decks . I lost paint, and did body damage, and a driver's side rear window that exploded when BGs gun fired.
I was "evading" - action beat reaction this time, I just kept moving the only way I could.

5. Attempted being run off the road. All I will say is we swapped body paint and a .44 mag for a "car gun" will get someone off your butt. I recommend full house loads and lanyards, oh practice full house loads with weak hand.

6. Attempted being run off the road (again). This back in the day of CB radios.
I was bumped from behind while doing 75 mph. No exits, no 'Authorized Vehicle" turn around in the median between freeways.
I had two folks on my tail meaning me not good health. The one that bumped me, had headlights off.
I put out the word for Smoky Bear , and the 18 wheelers up ahead I said I was coming thru and needed Anvil and Hammer.

I was doing ~ 130 mph when I went speeding between two 18 wheelers - side by side, and they as far asie could (using some shoulder of course) allowed me to do so.
I get through, and the 18 wheelers "closed up" . Smokey Bears come up from behind BGs and with 18 wheelers not allowing any passage around them...I hauled butt to safety and later had a visit with very very nice officers.

7. Lady Partner was driving, drive thru fast food joint, high curb on passenger side. I had turned around to get something from backseat [big mistake on my part]. Perp comes up on passenger side with a gun and we round the corner after order placed.
Not my brightest moment , still I was in fear of my partner. Mdse was insured, just concerned about her.
Did I mention my window was mostly down? [stupid me especially at 11pm, in a strange area out of state].

My door is jerked open and yell for lady to take off as I jump out and go for the gun with weak hand, pulling my Case Trapper with strong hand (don't ask me why I did not draw my concealed gun) and open knife one handed and I had a death grip in his gun.
I heard a bone break (his finger) and a "click" [Lady Luck was with me] and all this while I slice his gun forearm open, and slash his forehead above eyes. He dropped the gun once blood got in his eyes.
This all happened really fast, I just went in fast and furious and kept moving, doing something and got that death grip on that gun and got it turned.
Might explain why I hate some drive thru set ups...

8. Perp at my hood and his gun pointed at me thru my windshield. I open door, lean over and backed up the truck to safety.

9. Intersection and two perps run out from behind bushes in a neighborhood.
I took an immediate right, foot hard on the gas, hitting the sharp "sewer" , busting one tire, ruining the steel wheel as I cut that corner really really "early".
I kept going with a busting tire, bent steel wheel "wobblying" down the road as fast (best) could.
Might explain why I don't do alloy wheels...

10. Why I don't do front wheel drive vehicles.
Out of town, parking lot, 1 BG with gun pops up out from under and behind a bus tire ( I looked, just not good enough). 3 BGs in vehicles and I gotta evade.
I whip that wheel with foot on gas and hit a itty bitty short "parking lot stop".
I lost the front end of a new, rental Mopar. I don't do Mopar either... I haul out, do my best broken field running in leather sole shoes as shots are fired at me and head to a big cement drainage ditch, slide down, and run like hell.
UC officers I knew in that state I later called, my hotel room cleared and I got the heck to safety for a few days. I actually "hid" about 1/2 mi from where this all happened. Theory being - "hide in plain site" and "no idiot would stay close to where he was almost kidnapped".

11. I like rear wheel drive. One can be blocked in front, hit the gas and have two BG vehicles behind you - "move" enough and then evade. Does not do much for the rear end of vehicle, changes body style a bit, still most appreciative for Mentors and some private demolition derby lessons.
Protect the engine, keep the vehicle in running condition, and keep moving!

Can't put some stuff on a resume' in regard to a certain job description like I said ...

Don't go where trouble is, if trouble finds you - leave. Know how to leave, and if nothing else - do something, even if wrong, just do something and kept moving in some kind of direction.

Oh...always always welcome Lady Luck.

 

[shooter71]

is it un-manly to carry mace?

 

[Sniper X]

In one of theses cases, Mace will get you shot in the head. But, it all depends on timing and location and many other factors. I think basically I'd get out of the car, take out my extra remote and tag the receiver I have in the car to cut power to the ignition coil. I put this in my car that I'd have a hard time replaceing so if I ever get carjacked, I'll let the guy get far enough away to be a good clear shot and go from there. It's an easy mod i designed.

 

[sm]

Nope.

Just be sure the perp gets the mace and not you.
Mine had a dye in that showed up under UV.

Back in the day, mace/pepper spray for me did not seem "reliable" enough.
Now I took the tip from some UC LEO , Mentors in Auto Part Store carb cleaner, brake cleaner, de-icer, even spray paint.
Some places used to frown on folks having some mace/ pepper spray depending on political flavor, jurisdictions and all.

I mean spray paint and de-icer are not unusual for school parking lots ....

Compressed Air Horns are Good!
Everybody gets rattled when they go off, sound carries, attracts attention and to my knowledge - no restrictions on having one ....

I know one UC LEO that used one - scared the crap out of the guy at 3am in a bad part of town. Officer just went on down the road. Poor guy peed himself and dropped the pipe he had in hand.
My / Our ears rang for a long time after that...

 

[larry_minn]

Glad I don't have a life even 2% as exciting as sm.
Actually I thought I had some excitement in my life.

 

[sm]

All I can say is travel and the nature of the business made me a target for the mdse I traveled with. Add the fact I had access to businesses, safes where more mdse was kept, along with knowing others in said business and this information one does not want known.
Not only for the safety of "us" also families.

We don't talk about it, we don't advertise, and we cannot share many aspects of said business.

Car-Jacking is just one very serious area where situational awareness is paramount.

Professional BGs look for certain "business" types, add the punks, gangs and whatever else on the streets.

Professional Thugs were coming for me. "Could not peg him down, not predictable" . [ speaking of me]

This was shared with a buddy of mine, car-jacked, and rode in his vehicle trunk for ~ 4 hours.
They got him. He fought back until overpowered, and informed his wife and kid(s) were hostage at his home.
They had cased "us" - I being un-predictable - was given up on and they went for him.
They knew where kid(s) attended school, and had bypassed alarms at his home and were waiting for his wife to arrive home.
She was distracted by a sick kid and let her awareness down.

So while they drove him around in his trunk, and the others has his wife and kids hostage, had time to wait, waiting to go back to business to force at gunpoint to open safe, not to mention his family are hostage....

Guys got the kids asleep, in another room, and took turns having their way with his wife - repeatedly.

Safe was emptied, husband had the crap beat of him, the wife was not in good shape and thank goodness the kids were not harmed.

I have my fun on this forum, I cut up , thread drift, poke fun with friends , and admit I get real close to the edge in admonishing some folks in regard to some topics.

I am no big deal, never was, don't want to be. I am not that smart, I am just some dumb guy that has had Lady Luck assist me lots and lots of times.
I appreciate my Mentors & Elders, both men and ladies in passing forward to me what they did/ do.

When I refer to "Playing the Game" - understand that is a term that some us us to term a very serious something about life we share.
Call it sick humor if you will - sick humor keeps one sane.

Oh I can laugh and get angry at the same time about - mutant ninja zombies, TEOTWAWKI, SHTF , "tactical" and other things...

We did not have 911, cell phones, UPS, Fed-Ex, new offerings on guns, ammo, or equipment....or a lot of what is shared on fora.

This "business" and others akin to it have always been done a certain way. In the old days folks traveled by train, horse and buggy from station sometimes when a "motorized car" was not available.

One constant has always remained in survival.

Training the brain, being aware of surroundings, training in regard to having a plan , a backup plan, another backup plan and using whatever tool was available - to the best of its ability.

This might mean pulling the emergency "stop cord" on a train, jumping off a slowed down train (pulling away/ entering station) and running into depot, or jumping onto another train slowed down heading the other way.
Using a $1 pocketknife, yelling "rape", sic-kng a trained German Shepard onto a BG, ( ID-ing BG later at ER because rep had the BGs finger he picked off the ground) using a umbrella...or coming in to a gravel tossing slide stop in a parking lot next to a Police car with Police in the car.

Might mean tearing the crap out your vehicle ramming your way to get away from a car-jacker as well...

Firearms are great, neat knives, flashlights, big vehicles, sports cars, and other equipment is too.

Not much good if brain is not engaged first.

 

[992]

Never seen the car yet,that I would die for.
Let them have the car,you can always get another car,but another life is hard to come by.

992

 

[The Amigo]

MY wifey

My wife back then was a correctional officer at a female jail. But even do she is 37 she looks very young. Bad g said young girl give me the keys she gets off car. She yells please can i have my study books. Bad guy throws back pack full of books (with her 357 service revolver in it). Bad guy is in no exit street so he had to come thru our front house again bad guy decides to run over wife and not stop after he sees her in the middle of the street with a 357 in hand. Wifey shoots at car and thru door as car passes. She hits the ignition cap car dies and BG got shot in the calf and was in very bad shape. By the time the cops showed up my wife had a tourniquet and had the guy hancuffed.

 

[hso]

Fella here in Knoxville stopped to ask directions of a guy on a street corner this weekend. Guy pulls out a 9mm and demands vehicle (you gotta understand how strange that is in Kvile). Fella slams truck into reverse and burns tires backwards and gets a 9mm in the arm for having been nice enough to not drive over the Bad Guy with the gun. Fella in the truck got away and so far has the Bad Guy.

I think the fella in the truck had the right idea,but picked the wrong gear.

 

[hagar]

Never been carjacked, but been threatened multiple times on the roads, followed, had things thrown at my car and motorcycle, and people tried to force or run me off the road. My response is STOP THE CAR RIGHT NOW, get out while using car for cover, have handgun out while going for rifle in trunk. An AR15 or even a Mini14 beats a Glock/Jennings any day, and makes a pretty intimidating show of force. It would take a fool to escalate from here. If the other party persist, you have the perfect defence. I was afraid for my life, the other guy was a madman, I stopped my vehicle to get away from him/them, they still came after me. Being afraid for my safety, I had no alternative but to defend my life.

And be sure to call the police first if you can, before things even get to the point of pulling a gun.

 

[sm]

I was taught to engage without engaging if at all possible.
This helps in not dealing with Problem 2 .

Meaning, if I can evade then I do not have to spend time with Police, Lawyers, Courts, Jury's , Judges, and wonder if the evidence room is ever going to give me my gun(s) back, with the engraving of a evidence number inscribed on the slide or not.
I also alleviate any Civil legal concerns which also fall under "Problem 2".

--
Cars, mdse and whatever can be replaced. That is what insurance is for. That is what being bonded and insured is for.

Human life cannot be replaced. Whether the life itself is taken, or a part of one's life such as body parts being "ruined" for life.

--

Now, a few things to think about:

1. Enacted Legislation often hinders the law abiding and assists the criminal.

Criminals are not wired like law abiding folks - hence the reason we call them criminals.
Criminals may be dumb, they are not all stupid! In fact many know the law better than the law abiding. [Cell College teaches "criminal law" if you will]

This ain't rocket science - heck many criminals are smarter than Politicians - the criminal KNOWS the law abiding arenot going to carry a gun where the sign says "NO Guns!".

What does the criminal care? Criminal does NOT care. So go car-jack the folks leaving a Fed, State, County, City Gov't building. Odds are - the Prey are NOT armed.
Catch your wife, teenage daughter leaving a NO GUN on Campus School setting.
Heck - 2 blocks from campus at the stoplight and e-a-s-y pickings !


2. Human beings.
What about others in your vehicle?
Baby and kids in Safety Seats - one cannot very well just haul butt out of a vehicle and run off.
I am not real comfy with the idea of "Shootout at the OK Corral" intersection theory either.

Got a Adult with you? Maybe a Pregnant wife, Just picked up Husband ( any adult) from being released from Hospital, still "goopy" from dentist office, elderly person with physical limits...

Physical Limited Folks.
Here you go. Got a special vehicle with a physically limited person behind the wheel.

Ever taken a Amigo [tm], or wheelchair and gotten out from behind the steering wheel, and used the powered lift to get back to street level?

I have, and I am not Physically Limited. No way in hell a Physically limited person is going to haul butt and "run to back and get a gun and ...."

Physically limited cannot "run" to a vehicle and "jump" behind the wheel to evade as well either.
I tried that too and busted my butt on the lift in a wheelchair.

Car-jacking is just ONE awareness concern.

Firearms, Mace, OC , Knives , flashlights are just Tools they are NOT the only things one uses to prevent, and overcome being Prey.
The Brain is good! Being healthy myself, I like driving, and tennis shoes are always an option. I can still scoot my skinny butt over a bus bench, a small wall or whatever if need at my age.

Do yourself a favor, and that of your family - please!

Pay very very close attention to where and how YOU would attack you, your family . Think think a car-jacker, think like a criminal, think like a thief, rapist, baby snatcher...

Got a garage? Great, quality family time. Everyone, no matter how old, if they are whole, physically limited, they drive or not -
Look at the vehicles and really really study all there is about the vehicle and how to use the vehicle as a tool.
Find weaknesses, find strengths.

--
Vehicles ( this was fun and educational with wrecks that operated).

BiG truck with lift kit and 4WD. Run up (blind spots on them things) and stick chocks ( think like they use for airplanes), and that puppy cannot evade real well!
Have that "rice burner" run up under the big Truck (front, back or better yet from the side and get one side off the ground) and that truck is not moving real fast.

Oh man, just take some rope or chain and toss around drive axles and jam that puppy up!
Yep! We stopped a Big Dodge with a Hemi 4x4 extended cab truck deader than a doornail!

Little front wheel drives? BG backs into front end, or "Bump & Run" you into a vehicle in front and that little car is not going anywhere.

Add air bags - oh yeah, these deploy, and they sound like a 12 ga going off in your face and you are jammed up but good!

BGs Gotcha! You cannot get to a weapon of any kind with that air bag binding you up.

You might reflexivly reach up to protect your face and break your arm.
My ex wife broke her upper arm when rear ended and forced into the car in front. Not a car-jacking, just a HS kid going to fast and not paying attention and she had no place to evade to.

Now you gotta air bag, busted arm, busted glasses and BGs can grab purse, the baby, laptop, bank deposit...etc.

All I am suggesting is...

Think out of the Box

 

[thexrayboy]

SM
May I suggest you start making your rounds in one of these.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferret_armoured_car

 

[springmom]

I don't have a problem with giving up my car, per se. For one thing, I have LoJack and the BG is not going to go too terribly far without meeting up with more people with guns than just me.

The problem with getting out is that, having done that, you have given up your escape, you have given up at least some shelter, and you have ZERO guarantee that the bad guy is going to say "Good job, thank you, have a nice day" and drive off without shooting you anyway. I would rather stay in the car and floor it and try to get away.

And never be in a car with Steve..... he and parking lots don't sound like a safe combination......

Springmom

 

[sm]

springmom-

Washburn Tunnel during rush hour traffic with a wreck inside is no picnic....
That "Spaghetti Bowl" of a Interstate around that area...I mean one can see where they want to go - just finding an exit, and street to get there is a whole 'nuther deal.

There is NO safe place one can let their awareness down .

Car-jacking is the current concern of this thread.
Great, still on that "Spaghetti Bowl" of an Interstate, one has to watch out for drunks, a wheel coming off a vehicle and I have seen wheels come off and do all sorts of damage to not only the vehicle it come off of - also other drivers, including oncoming lane.

Hotels when the fire alarm goes off in the wee hours is fun. Especially when on is on the 8th floor to 15th floor. Stairways with scared, panicked folks from babies to elderly and that fire bell going off...

My point has always been - use the brain. Think, and Think out of the box.

It is NOT the equipment per se' that saves one bacon - instead being of a mindset of having a plan, and backup plans and Thinking as need to survive.

Not one damn time did MY gun come up as being the tool to survive heading out of a Hotel from upper floor with Fire Alarm ringing. Oh sure I was concerned about security for me...main concern was getting out safely.

NO high dollar flashilights back then ...Ray-O-Vac C cell, Everyready D cell, Mag-Lights from Solitare to AA, to C and D cell....

Just like when that Wheel from a delivery truck come off truck and heading down the interstate...I was not thinking guns, knives, anything but " how am I going to get way to the right and not hit anybody - or anybody hit me?

No "rewind" or "do overs" in the game of life. The wheel? took an odd bounce, jumped the cement divider, went into oncoming lane and killed a driver and injured others when it suddenly come up from behind a driver and "cut in front" of them.

No how many of us "look" for a tire and wheel coming up from behind or alongside us on a Interstate? WE don't!
By the time the brain accesses that wheel is not part of vehicle - it can be too late.

Car-jacking - by the time we access "something" about people, places and things while in our vehicles - It can be too late.

Called Life.

One learns by mistakes - a lot less expensive and painful if one learns from other's mistakes and observations.

Vehicles? I worked in the Main OR for a bit and saw a LOT of things.
Seat belts will hurt you and bad.
Ladies especially as they have breasts. In a wreck the seat belt tightens as designed and human beings are affected by Physics....bodies will go with the force and react to forces.
Breasts have been severed, some were lost ( had to be removed) others required extensive surgery to repair.
Ladies, get a padded seat belt cover please!
Folks, use padded seat belt covers for ALL the seat belts in your vehicle no matter the gender of passengers!