Car door ballistics test

[armslist]

I had a car door to dispose of so we decided to try out a few different rounds in a real world test to see how they performed.

The testing site:


First, a 22LR with a lead projectile out of a P22. It had no trouble at all punching through the outer layer of the door, but failed to break through any successive layers inside the door.





A different 22LR ammo yielded similar results.




The KelTec P3AT passed through a part of the door where it didn't hit subsequent layers, so that part of the test is inconclusive.





The 38 special wadcutters out of the snubby didn't make it through the inner layer. of the door.

 

[hso]

Cars are more concealment than cover. The only reliable protection they provide is along the axels or engine.

 

[armslist]

The 357s had no trouble with the inner layers, even out of the short barrel.






The 45 ACP was effective at breaking through all 3 layers regardless of the ammo type or length of the barrel.

The 3.5" barrel was sufficient to pierce all 3 with both FMJs and hollow points.




There were a few 45 rounds that didn't make it all the way through, it only seemed to happen when they hit a very thick portion of the inner frame, or if they hit on a seam of some type that deflected it, the majority went all the way through.


But most of the time, the 45 prevailed.





After a few mags, the end result is pretty telling.




We wish we could have tested .40 and 9mm, but nobody had one with them at the range that day.
We will include those next time, and some targets behind the door to see what kind of damage they could do after the steel slows them down a bit.

 

[armslist]

Cars are more concealment than cover. The only reliable protection they provide is along the axels or engine.

Agreed. This test is real world confirmation that the car door isn't stopping much.

 

[Mags]

Great info, thanks. I wonder how 9mm and 40S&W would fare?

 

[armslist]

Great info, thanks. I wonder how 9mm and 40S&W would fare?

I know, we really wanted to try them out as well, but didn't have any available that day at the range.

 

[Oyeboten]

Nice test!


I like seeing basic pragmatic testings like this.


Car Door at an acute Angle...might be alright for cover...but at 90 degrees or so, the Modern Cars generally, yup, the Doors will not stop major Handgun Caliber Bullets.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I have shot my 40 using 165 grain Ranger ammo and it punchs all the way trough a car door.

 

[Sgt_R]

Further reading for anyone interested in the subject:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm

 

[bigalexe]

Out of curiosity has anyone tried to shoot through the door from the inside at close range?

The reason i ask is that I have a scenario that gets in my head and wonder how it would work:
-A person comes up to your car door and attempts to harm you, said person does not know have a gun in your jacket on the left side. So you reach in your jacket with your right hand and aim out the door (we are assuming like 2 feet away so aiming shouldn't be hard) and fire through the door into the attacker.

If this was done in a movie I did not see it, so that's not where the idea came from.

 

[Lee Roder]

IIRC, the original 357 magnum cartridge arose out of just such a test

 

[WardenWolf]

The US military did just such a test, and it's the reason they're going back to a .45 caliber submachine gun. The 9mm just didn't provide acceptable penetration after passing through a car door. The .45 was still very lethal.

 

[Palehorseman]

I saw where army is going to .50 Beowulf uppers at checkpoints in BG country, can penetrate common vehicles stem to stern, as well as dismantling engine blocks, transmissions etc.

 

[gym]

Can I borrow that door? But seriouslly, it depends on the door the angls and the material that the door is made from. Not all doors are alike. I would like to see this done on an older car like and old caddy or chevy with the heavy steel doors. Like a door from every decade starting with the 70's, I would bet that those old cars had some thick ass steel doors. I remember 38's deflecting off the doors and windows of getaway cars, "back in the day" that was one reason for the 357. Maybe we can chip in and do a test, that would be fun. Hit it with different calibers and different types of ammo. Mas said recentlly that you should have a rifle that could pierce a car door, in one of his articles when discussing gang violence in certain states. i don't want to mis quote him, but it was close to that.He was discussing the problems in Arizona and the home grown terrorist type camps along the border.

 

[Vonderek]

An interesting follow up study would be to have a block of ballistic gel behind the door.

 

[ccjcc81]

Thanks for the excellent post. Keep them coming.

An interesting follow up study would be to have a block of ballistic gel behind the door.

+1,
I googled "how to make homemade ballistics gell" a while ago and found great recipes.

 

[WardenWolf]

For a more thorough test like this, check out http://www.theboxotruth.com. They tested on an old Buick, from multiple angles, with multiple pistols and rifles. It is a huge eye-opener. You do NOT want to use a car as cover. It is suicide. Their protection is almost nil.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I love experiments like those. It's not quite real world, but you can't truly get "real world" without getting into real circumstance. I'm not shooting my dad's classic truck just for conversation sake, nor am I going to shoot my newer trucks doors with all panels intact. This does, however...bring alot of realities bout cover and concealment to light.

I had a friend who had a theory that a laptop hard drive's casing would stop a round. Well, I had one that died and had a ridiculously slow processor, so I figured killing it would be more fun than salvaging it and putting some obscure form of Linux on it. Besides, it was a touchscreen, and the tablet function was neat, but now defunct. Netbooks are under $300 all day...so why not?

Shot number's one and two went (45) straight through the lid, battery and soft alloy (of some sort) rear cover. Shots 3 and 4 not only penetrated the hard drive (both sides of the housing, platters and all...but removed it from the laptop. I proceeded to empty about 50 rounds into it. I'll get around to testing a few hard drives I have laying around sometime with rifle calibers and maybe a 9mm or 40.

I should have documented the entire shoot, but it was just too much fun.

Lessons learned...this internet commando that I shot should have worn Kevlar.

 

[Captcurt]

More Ballistics Test!

I shoot a hot loaded 180gr XTP in my 6" GP. It goes through both doors 90% of the time. Does wonders to an engine block, too.

 

[WardenWolf]

I keep forgetting to take a defunct Seagate laptop drive I have out to the range with me. Laptop drives most definitely won't stop a bullet. They're just aluminum housings, and often have glass platters. A .22LR would go clean through. A desktop drive, though, that's another story. There's a LOT of very strong, very rigid metal in those things. I've had to drill through a few old drives to properly decommission them, and it's not easy or quick. I think a desktop drive will stop most pistol rounds.

 

[cajun47]

i shoot 8' + gators in the head with fmj and corbon +p 9mm. almost all where one stop shots. when i used fmj or corbon +p .45acp i almost always had to shoot twice, the .45 slug would not go all the way in.

 

[Hatterasguy]

In a shoot out vehicals are death traps. The engine will provide some protection, as will the axles/wheels if you lie down.

But you want to get out fast, inside is a very bad place to be.

I have seen after action pictures of 5.56 rounds going through the back door of a new Suburban, going through the rear seat, front headrest and literaly turning the drivers head inside out before exiting through the windsheild. Vehicals are death traps in shootouts.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Go to Boxotruth.com
check out the Buick of Truth, very cool and look at the deflection from shooting a windshield.

 

[deadeyedog270]

nice thats all nice

 

[MachIVshooter]

Cars are more concealment than cover. The only reliable protection they provide is along the axels or engine.

Agreed. This test is real world confirmation that the car door isn't stopping much.

That is true. On the flip side, bullets really do have a difficult time getting through cars to incapacitate BG's in real-world shoot-outs. All kinds of different materials at funny angles to deflect them. I watched a police video once, IIRC, the SWAT team unloaded something like 120 rounds from their SMG's and service pistols into the SUV (I think it was a Tahoe). The BG was hit ONCE! and it was not a life-threatening injury (Arm or leg, I think). I'll try to find that clip.

But anyway......

Case in point, we had a '97 Honda civic with a blown engine that became target practice. It was a 100% in-tact automobile. Whether or not a bullet enters the passenger compartment is a flip of the coin. We shot that car with everything from .22's and shotguns to my AR-10, G-3 and Armalite AR-50. The very first round fired was a .50 BMG AP round from 50 yards, directly at the engine from the front of the car. Guess what? It failed to penetrate the block It passed through the bumper, radiator support, radiator, fan motor, catalytic converter and then struck an A/C compressor bolt (M10) right on the head and gouged it about 2/3 of the way down, even ripping the boss off the block. But that bullet would not have stopped the engine right away.

But more to the point, a stripped car door is one thing. A door that has a window with regulator, lock mechanisms, linkage, switches and panels, etc. is a whole 'nother ball game. .357 Magnum and 10mm auto rounds sometimes struck those internal components and failed to enter the passenger compartment. And this is a thin skinned little honda car, not an American SUV or older hunk of detroit steel.

My point is, while I wouldn't want to count on the passenger compartment of a car to provide protection from gunfire, I also hope my life never depends on incapacitating a driver with a handgun from outside the vehicle.

EDIT:

Here's that clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ummnOoSfd54