Carl Gustafs Stads M96 1903...worth?

[Plank Road Farm]

Found this gun in a pawn shop today, S/N 136606.
Don't know much about these guns but I've been reading they are accurate.
All the numbers match except the metal band where the sling attaches.
Wood is in good shape and has a very intricate looking rear sight adjustment.
Guy said the round brass plate in the stock actually tells all about the gun if you can understand the markings.
Is it worth $375?
Is there another site especially devoted to this gun that could give me more history, indentification information, and worth?
Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[bearmgc]

I paid that in trade for a carbine sporter in excellent shape, bright bore. So I'm thinking maybe not, unless you really want it. Then its a moot point.

 

[Cosmoline]

A few years ago I would have said that was high. But if it's in good shape and original condition I wouldn't call that too much. The prices are headed north on Swedes. Or up to Sweden you might say ;-)

has a very intricate looking rear sight adjustment.

Is it a target model or are you just talking about the tangent sight?

 

[Plank Road Farm]

Quote: Is it a target model or are you just talking about the tangent sight?
I've done some reading since my initial question & think that the rear sight is not bipolar or target type, but the type that flips up. It has a little round disc like adjustment with some engraving.
I don't remember exactly, I have not bought this gun. Just examined it at the pawn shop this afternoon.
Thanks for all your comments.

 

[Cosmoline]

Was this it?? If so that's the AGJ-sight and you may have been looking at a rare civilian rifle called the FSR. But the fact that this isn't a Huskvarna makes me wonder if you were looking at a sniper with the m/55 sight they used to replace a broken scope. Either way it's something unusual by the sound of it. I'd buy provided it wasn't a bubba job, and I don't know many bubbas who have access to rare Swedish sighting systems.

If you can get a notation of the *exact* markings on the rifle and sight, the boys over here would know for sure:

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=49

 

[Plank Road Farm]

Rear Sight Type?

Cosmoline:

The picture you posted is similar, but simplier.

The one I saw was fancier that that.

I am going to take my digital camera to the pawn shop next week and take a picture of the rear sight and post it here so you and others can help me identify it.

I don't know why I haven't thought of that before!

Thanks for the idea.

 

[Cosmoline]

It could just be a Mojo micro click. Take a look for any markings on the sight.

 

[Vic303]

The stock disc will tell you the overall factory condition grade (1,2,3) with 1 being best, but the factory was extremely conservative, such that 3's often are perfectly serviceable shooters. The 6.49-6.5x marking is the barrel/throat wear.
The number of small crowns stamped on the underside of the stock wrist (if original stock) will tell how many times it went back to factory for repair. Is it all matching (except for cleaning rod...)? The 3 set of markings on the disc Overtorped or some word like that, is the holdover needed for the shift to spitzer bullets.

 

[Plank Road Farm]

Okay, finally some pictures to examine!

I went back to the Pawn Shop this morning and took these pics.
Hope someone can nail down exactly what this rifle is.





The engraving on the rear sight is as follows: "METALLVERKEN" (on top) then "VASTERAS" (underneath) and then "SV. PAT. 90944" (underneath that).
All numbers match except the front strap band and the magazine bottom plate and it doesn't have a cleaning rod. Has the iniIials "KB" to the left of the S/N and only has one crown mark on the bottom of the stock wrist.
I got the price down to $300 OTD.
Should I buy it?

 

[Cosmoline]

From what I can tell, the METALLVERKEN VASTERAS sight was put on a number of later model Swedes including some older M96's that had been converted to carbines. That would make this a 96/38. Worth $350 to $400 from what I can find on line. One gb auction is over 400 now with more bids coming. This price is up from about $200 five or seven years ago. They're getting harder to find.

That rear sight ALONE would prompt me to buy it at more than three bills. It alerts all my milsurp instincts. But frankly with or without that rear sight $300 is a very good price for a nice Swede these days. I would not hesitate any longer. Plus unless I can't see the pip there is none by the "123", which means you got a brand fricking new barrel on that pup. They probably put it on when they reconfigured it as a carbine. Should shoot EXTREMELY well. Maybe sub MOA.

 

[Vic303]

Yeah, I'd buy it at $300 too! Sweet!

 

[mordecai]

For $300, yes. A normal, mostly-matching Carl Gustaf M96 runs a shade under $300 bucks. A Vasteras sight is easily worth $40 (if not a few bucks more).

If you pass - email me the dealer's info!

 

[Plank Road Farm]

This is not a carbine.

Quote: "From what I can tell, the METALLVERKEN VASTERAS sight was put on a number of later model Swedes including some older M96's that had been converted to carbines. That would make this a 96/38."

This gun has a 29" barrel, it is not a carbine. Can it still be a 96/38?

 

[giturgun]

You better not post them pictures on Mauser Central , them boys would short out their key board droolin. Try Mauser Central , good mauser based site , and yes I am a member . Metal verkin is German for metal works I think . The boys on mauser cent. would know for sure.

What really kills me is remembering when I bought 2 that looked like new , all matching numbers for 69.95 each and tax. If I had known then what I know now I would have a tractor trailer with old mil surp rifles on it .

 

[Cosmoline]

This gun has a 29" barrel, it is not a carbine. Can it still be a 96/38?

You got me. I'm a Mosin guy. That's a later vintage of sights and maybe they put it on the M91 without modifying it into a carbine. You should ask over on the Mauser boards. Buy it regardless, though! Don't let it escape you.

 

[Plank Road Farm]

"giturgun"

Just joined and posted on Mauser Central. I mentioned your name.

Looking forward to reading their responses.

 

[Plank Road Farm]

Bought the Swede M96 today!

Thanks for all your inputs, it helped me make the decision to add to the herd.

The guy at the pawn shop just had to have $290 OTD (out the door).

Here she is:





Now I need advice on what type of ammo to use for my first test shots.

It is okay to shoot this rifle, isn't it?

Appreciate all the responses.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'd get a mix of ammo. Obviously 6.5 Swede, but some heavy some light. See what weight of bullet it does best with. By the look of it the rifle should be fine to shoot, assuming nobody tried to rechamber it.

 

[Blackfork]

Great Price for a Swede 96.

Congrats on a pretty nice rifle. Looks like it has the front sight hood as well.

I'd get a couple of different ammo selections from Cheaper than Dirt or Ammoman or AIMSurplus.com. That would be a fun rifle to load for. You can usually find reloads and Swede ammo at gunshows as well.

 

[Vic303]

Mine likes 140 spitzers, but does ok with 129's too. Recently got some Lapuaa brass to roll for it so that might make things even better... If you can get the 160gr RNs they'd be fun to try. From what I recall on Swede history, the 160gr RN is closest to the original pre-spitzer loads. Reloader 19 is a very good powder for Swedes too.

 

[Plank Road Farm]

Just wondering about the bolt.

Does anyone know if the bolt has been altered or was that the original design?

I thought from what I've read that the bolt is supposed to be straight!

Maybe this was the bolt they used on sniper or target shooting models.

Hope it has not been "bubbafied"!

 

[Vic303]

The original M96 bolt is a straight bolt. Yours is turned down, which could be an armory change (yours is carbine length, isn't it?), but evenif it was Bubba's work it looks fine. I'd be glad if I got one with a turned bolt--it should make it a little handier to use.

 

[Blackfork]

Bolt numbers

I noticed that and thought I had just mis-remembered....the original bolt was a straight bolt. Plenty of bent Swede bolts around. I bet the bolt numbers don't match the rest of the gun.

I think the bent bolt is preferable and it looks like an original bent bolt, not bubbaed. It may not be original to the rifle but it could be original Swede.

That's the full length rifle, not the shorter M38 and not a Swede Carbine.

 

[Cosmoline]

I don't want to get your hopes up, but that may well be an actual Swede sniper. The bend in the bolt looks very close to the way they did it, and I believe that they removed the worn-out or broken sniper scope on some and used a backup sight very much like the one on your rifle.

CHeck the Mauser forums on this issue. You may have a real prize.

 

[Plank Road Farm]

Bolt numbers

Blackfork Quote: "I bet the bolt numbers don't match the rest of the gun. "

All matching numbers except the rear metal strap band and the magazine floor plate.

Someone suggested looking at this site: http://www.northcapepubs.com/swmauser.htm

"Frivilliga skytte rölsen Rifles (m/38-96)

When World War II began, the military lacked sufficient rifles to equip members of the Swedish National Shooters Association (Frivilliga skytte rölsen) as reservists. The government turned to Husqvarna, who was already manufacturing the m/38 rifle. Husqvarna produced 20,000 m/96-type rifles with 29.1 inch barrels in 1944 and 1945.

Over the years, many of these were equipped with a variety of precision match-style rear and front sights."



How can this be identified to be sure?

Is it a 1903 M96 or a Swedish National Shooters Association (Frivilliga skytte rölsen) m/38-96 with the turned-down bolt handle?