Carry a "Dirty" Weapon?

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

peoria46

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
41
Once, during one of my periodic exiles into staff pukedom, I was asked if I wanted some old, discarded books and manuals. One binder contained the complete course curriculum for MACV's One-Zero School. THAT binder went home quickly. Most of it was dry Army prose. The Lessons Learned, however, was a goldmine of patrolling techniques probably known only to Vietnam Vets. Certainly not my Army of the early '80's. Lost in the mists of time. One lesson was a blinding flash of obvious, but so out of place in a peacetime Army. Patrol weapons were test fired/zero confirmed, then not cleaned, disassembled, adjusted, or fiddled with prior to insertion. Otherwise, it was back to the firing range. The idea was to ensure that the weapon worked--not just a function check, but a firing check, then not screw with it. And what's a little carbon between friends if the return is knowing that your weapon is working--not just should work because it has in the past and you know how to correctly assemble it--but is working right now as you hold it.

Do any of you follow a similar procedure with the weapon that you carry? Is a little carbon OK? Or is cleanliness next to Godliness?
 
Back when I shot Action Shooting, I would clean my gun the day of the match, test fire it in the shop to make sure everything worked, then dont touch it.
 
In Vietnam we cleaned weapons when we got a chance. I never saw anyone use the 'dirty weapon cleaning.' I was trained to keep em clean, and put them back together right. Still do.

Kevin
 
depends if only shoot 100 rounds i wont take it and clean it right away and will carry it for several days even. then eventually i will clean it . now if shoot anymore than that i will clean it right away when i get home.

Rifles are a bit I like to keep them clean after every shooting trip. They normally sit longer than my pistol so rust would be mor likey to build up.

To each his own though. Most firearms are made so they can shoot many rounds before they jam.
 
I would never carry a freshly cleaned weapon. How do I know it will fire next time? How do I know I didn't put something together wrong.

Every carry gun I have gets one magazine or cylinder through after cleaning.

Makes good sense to me.

My home carbine is the same, it gets one mag through and then goes beside the bed.
 
You should function fire your weapon before you carry it for defensive purposes. I've cleaned my weapon on the range, then put a magazine through it beofre leaving the range to make sure it functions.

I would say that more weapons get worn out by excessive cleaning then ever do by shooting.

Jeff
 
i'm interested in the consensus here. i've never had a gun fail after cleaning/reassembly, although i admit it's theoretically possible. so it's not a big concern of mine, but i dont' clean after every trip to the range either, so usually, i'm carryign a dirty gun. in fact, my defense loads are very clean and even after i shoot several hundred, i'm not uncomfortable with the buildup on the rails/etc affecting function. my lead practice loads are extremely dirty and so if i shoot them, i always clean afterwards.
 
There can be a happy medium. You can wipe it down after firing without dissassembling it. It's never entered my mind to be worried an auto pistol wouldn't work after a simple field strip and function check. It's not like you're messing with the firing pin, extractor or trigger components. As long as the recoil spring, guide rod and takedown lever are assembled properly it will work. If not, it will bind up when you try to function check it.
 
I clean my weapons after every firing. The purpose of a functions check is to check if the weapon was reassembled properly and will function as it was designed to do so. If you clean your weapon, function check it, there's no reason why it wouldn't function properly.
 
Info, Please

Sorry Moderator if this is the wrong thread for this!

I do a fair cleaning job with my two carry weapons..but what I'd really like to do is take them apart (not completely..but enough to see the inards). Problem is, I'm scared s***less that I won't be able to get them back together!

Has anyone else over come this initial fear and forged ahead? Any suggestions as to pamplets or books?

(1) S&W .357 model 65

(2) KAHR P9

Take Care
 
As an interesting aside on the subject of function checks, fiction though it may be, many here may recall one of the plot threads in Stephen Hunter's "Point of Impact".

Regarding weapons cleaning and maintenance, I know of no hard and fast rule. Rather, it's highly personal. Referencing my initial post, patrols that I sent into Korea's DMZ followed the "don't clean" rule. This because the weapons absolutely had to function and have a solid zero. Soldiers sometimes mistrusted an M16's ability to keep a zero--this was a mechanism to allay their fears. May sound silly, but not at 0300 in an ambush position, when every tree or deer is a potential bad guy. When operating as a full company in typical training exercises, then we cleaned all weapons at least daily and checked them at least daily. Rarely test fired them. Weapons inspection was a ritual every breakfast--usually a task the First Sergeant took for himself. And, if the First Sergeant attended breakfast, absolutely no one tried to sleep in or skate.
 
I my self just came back from the desert and what I did was to clean the fire about 30 through my M4 to make sure it was "dirty". I did this because I wanted to ensure it would functon and I would leave it. Depending on how the weather was depended on how much I would clean or just give the gun a good wiping.. just what I did...
 
If I were going hunting, or were a soldier with a precision rifle of some sort, I'd at least want to shoot a fouling shot or two so the next round goes where the rifle is sighted in. With rifles, oil in the bore can sometimes change the point of impact slightly (or so I've read).

I don't mind carrying a clean handgun (in fact, I almost always do, and there are a few minor theoretical advantages in doing so), as POI shift from a cleaned bore is not going to be an issue with a 3" barreled handgun. I do a thorough function check after cleaning and before loading, though.
 
I'm a loose 1911 kinda guy, havent cleaned my gun in 600 rounds, and it still works fine.

prolly wont for at least another 400 rounds ;)
 
I clean all guns immediately after a trip to the range. But, with my carry gun I'll fire a few rounds after cleaning just to make sure there's no funny business going on (aka put it back together wrong). So it goes back into the holster with a little residue on it. NO big deal.
 
I'll check that the firing pin moves properly and do a function check after cleaning but I'm not going to drive to the range to fire proving rounds or anything. I can hardly crack a few off out the window.

At least now that I'm not in Spenard. :evil:
 
I do the pencil test on my SD/HD guns to make sure the firing pin is hitting home and that the safety is working. I don't have a place to test-fire where I clean and I don't have time to clean where I shoot.
 
peoria46 said:
.... patrols that I sent into Korea's DMZ followed the "don't clean" rule. This because the weapons absolutely had to function and have a solid zero. Soldiers sometimes mistrusted an M16's ability to keep a zero--this was a mechanism to allay their fears. ....
Click to expand...
I spent 1968 in/on that DMZ, and on every trip from the compound to the Zone, we stopped at a small range and fired the M-14s. The drill was to function test them, and to reconfirm the zero.

I like to keep guns very clean, and I clean them most rigorously at home. However, my carry pistol usually gets rigorously cleaned just before a trip to the range; then it gets cleaned at the range after firing, then one magazine through it.
 
I have heard the long gun/sharpshooter folks talk about firing a "fouling shot" after cleaining, the notion seems to be that you want a little gunk in the rifling to get the best accuracy when it counts. (Most famously mentioned in "Unintended Consequences," so ask John Ross about it!)

I was always told to not get too aggressive when routinely cleaning a .22, that one really thorough cleaning a year was plenty; the rest of the time, just wipe it down and run a patch down the bore, lest the barrel become excessively worn. For all I know, that's nonsense -- but my Dad's 1930s-vintage bolt-action .22 rifle is next to me as I write and it shoots as well as it ever did, having been cared for in that manner. YMMV, IANAE, etc.

The guns I most often carry get dry-fired after cleaning (I try to dry fire them several times a day, though they require a snap-cap due to the design) and are a greatly simplified take on the 1911. They are not failure-prone. A part of the reassembly process is to check that the firing pin moves freely, the slide moves without binding, the hammer falls when the trigger is pressed, and that all the safety functions work. (We all do this, right?)

With non-corrosive primers and modern smokeless powder, dirt and rust are the biggest enemies a gun has. Lint is probably a greater problem for a daily carry gun than powder reside and some copper/lead from a few shots!

beaucoup ammo: There are "Firearms Assembly/Disassembly" books published that cover families of weapons -- one for autoloading pistols, one for revolvers, one for shotguns, one for rimfire rifles, etc. and they cover most guns. Price is right around $20.00 They describe field-stripping and proceed on to detail-stripping. You can also buy little booklets covering specific guns, sometimes in greater detail or a model that's not in the big books. Most gun-owners will never need to detail-strip their guns.
At the detail-strip level, there are a lot of small parts with springs behind them, waiting to fly away and hide. It takes some thinking ahead.
Field-stripping a semi-auto is no big deal (so far -- there's a Tokarev waiting for me on the cleaning table right now, so I may report back later, much humbled!). Most of them were designed so soldiers could do it under adverse conditions, after all. Revolvers don't have to be taken apart for cleaning and are complicated enough inside that you'll need the book before deciding if taking off that sideplate is something you'd like to try.
 
Last edited:
On my 6.5 x 284 first fouling shot that I shoot down range at 1000 yards is consistently 2 minutes low. That is due to it being not just a cold barrel, but also my first shot is normally getting out the little bit of oil thats left from cleaning.

My Anshutz rifle that I shot small bore with probably had about 10,000 rounds through it before I cleaned it. I had a bright idea of cleaning it. It wouldn't shoot worth a damn after the cleaning. It took about 500 rounds to get it shooting again. Never cleaning another .22 target rifle.

My IPSC pistol hasn't been cleaned in probably 1000 rounds. Still shoots good. Placed 3rd last week.
 
If you still have that binder I hope you're taking care of it. I doubt the Army has it on file anywhere any more.

It's been a habit of mine not to carry a freshly cleaned weapon for a good long while now. The idea came from the same source, some of the former MACV-SOG guys I knew once upon a time.

lpl/nc
 
It must be a jarhead thing!

USMC Tanker said:
I clean my weapons after every firing. The purpose of a functions check is to check if the weapon was reassembled properly and will function as it was designed to do so. If you clean your weapon, function check it, there's no reason why it wouldn't function properly.
Click to expand...

I clean and do a function check after every firing. My weapons never go more than 48 hours with gunk sitting in them.

Semper Fi
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top