Carry on Native American Lands

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cross deputized??? or cross trained??? or something like that comes to mind. I think that if a non-indian (local or state LEO) is one of these then he/she can enforce the indian laws to indians on indian land. And vice-versa???? If an indian LEO is one of the above then he/she can enforce the laws to non-indian people within the reservation (ie, speeding, etc...) I could be wrong but that is what I have been told. I spent 6.5 years on various reservations in Minnesota, New Mexico and Arizona back in the early 1990's. My question would be who has jursdiction on the state highways that run through indian land? I would think those people could enforce state laws on those roadways even if they are on tribal property or indian land??????

The Dove
 
Interestingly enough, the Oneida Indians require that you hold a NYS CCW Permit before you can apply to join their "police force".
 
i know dozens of native Americans including officers of the tribal police forces. Have no idea what happens in some other states but i do know what happens in OK and many other states. Tribal police have the authority to arrest or cite anyone who breaks the law on Indian property. In this area non tribal members appear before the federal magistrate in Lawton.

In some jurisdictions a non tribal member could even face a tribal court. Some tribes operate their own prisons for convicted tribal members: The correctional officers at those prisons are officers of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. If former SD congressman Bill Janklow is caught on the Rosebud reservation he will be going to jail for raping a tribal member many years ago.


Trivia: Some tribes issue their own passports. In the state of OK 38 tribes issue their own auto license plates.
 
Last edited:
State jurisdiction over crimes in Indian country can vary from state to state because in 1953 Congress gave some states criminal jurisdiction in what's known as PL 280, codified at 18 USC 1162. The PL 280 states are currently Alaska, California, Minnesota, Nebraska, Oregon, and Wisconsin. Be careful extrapolating from one state to another when trying to figure out what the limits of jurisdiction are.

This is not a simple question to answer and chances are anyone who's qualified to give you a real answer is going to want to get paid for doing it.

Unfortunately, the answer to many legal questions is "nobody knows, try it out and we'll see what the court says."

I haven't researched the question, but I could imagine 18 USC 930 being an issue - many reservations are technically owned by the US government in trust for the tribes, so it would be possible to argue that some buildings or casinos on a reservation are "federal facilities", if there were a federal employee regularly working there and the required postings were done.
 
My question would be who has jursdiction on the state highways that run through indian land? I would think those people could enforce state laws on those roadways even if they are on tribal property or indian land??????
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that the highway as well as a strip of land ten feet wide on both sides is state land, and the state has jurisdiction there.
 
Better not to do it. As noted on reservations the juristictional agreements can be quite complex. In addition to the tribal cops there are sometimes agreements between them and other Pd's for cross enforcement. And if the casino is located in a incorporated town on the reservation their is a possibility of venue involving the town cops.

Plus there can be some tensions when people come onto reservation and deliberately flaunt tribal laws.

Generally weapons and such work better if one lives on the reservation and people know you...coming in as a outsider and pushing that line is not worth the trouble.

And anyway although reservations can be very violent places, unless one's going to go into the stupd places it's not all that much risk. Casino's generally keep a close eye on the chaos because they do not the need the bad pr.

About state highways usually the state and tribal entities make exchange agreements on venue.
 
Last edited:
I see a couple of new faces on this thread. Welcome to THR, and thanks for your input - same goes to everyone.
Judging by the overwhelming number of responses that are "location A does it this way" followed by "location B does it this way", combined with the contradictory nature of people's experiences and the laws I can find, I think blakdawg hit the nail on the head.
blakdawg said:
This is not a simple question to answer and chances are anyone who's qualified to give you a real answer is going to want to get paid for doing it.

Unfortunately, the answer to many legal questions is "nobody knows, try it out and we'll see what the court says."
Click to expand...
I previously mentioned that it is my perspective that if an entity does not want firearms on their property, they do not want me on their property and do not respect my right to life. I'm thinking the result is that I'll have to make a case-by-case decision regarding refusing to go or leaving my EDC at home.
 
Jurisdiction is not particularly relevant to the OP's concern. The issue is that of obeying an owner's condition of entry to the premises.

You trespass and charges are filed? Do you really care to whom you pay the fine?
 
Art Eatman said:
You trespass and charges are filed? Do you really care to whom you pay the fine?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't trespass. The whole point of this thread was that I do not want to break the law.
Not sure about other states, but in NY, you must be asked to leave or have previously be specifically instructed that you are not allowed on the property for it to qualify as trespassing. There's no such thing as "owner's condition of entry". IIRC, exceptions include "POSTED" signs for outdoor areas.
 
Last edited:
archigos, it seems to me that "We do not allow firearms in our casinos." settles the whole deal, right there.

In your example, you don't even need a sign posted at the door. You've been told. Leave the gun at home or safely locked in your car--but that's irrelevant to this thread's question.
 
In most cases the law says you must follow the establishments policy if you wish to frequent the establishment . I'm having a hard time figuring out if this is a I wanna get out of jail free by finding a loophole thread or a I dont care if I'm wrong I want the last word anyway thread.
 
archigos, I see no conflict between our comments. You say you don't want trouble, so all ya gotta do is either don't go there or don't carry while there.

Somewhat related is the parking-lot deal of some companies, but several states passed laws which let a person have his firearm in his car on the company lot--but the company retains the right to prohibit any carry within the building.

I dunno. I smoke, and I carry. Where forbidden to do either, I don't enter or if I must enter, I obey their rules. Seems easy enough to me...
 
Those who say the feds have no say on the res. need only do something "fed worthy" to find out how much they will get involved. It seems the OP wants to carry on a res. in NYS that already hates guns, against the casinos stated policy. I think if he does it and gets caught or uses his gun it will be plenty "fed worthy".
 
Native Americans were screwed we all know that. The gov. isn't gonna take a chance on opening a can of worms for one man, so you do what they say or stay away. Casinos also serve alcohol, so in that point you best leave it off of your body.

If the news has taught us anything, enough money can buy what ever you want but the question would be is how much do you have or are willing to spend?

The law is a living breathing thing, it changes constantly and adapts, usually not to the benefit of a gun owner. Remember too that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Just be safe and be smart, if you worry for your life and feel you need to carry, then the first rule of carry comes into effect. Do not willingly put yourself in a situation of danger and I'm sorry but you want to go, not need to. I mean no disrespect but when someone says I have rights, that means nothing to me on my land. I own it pay for it and if I catch you on any of my 100 acres with a gun you will leave posted or not and one way or the other.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Gun Control Laws and Native American Reservations
Replies
5
Views
1K
Midwest
M
T
  • Locked
Firearms, and Tribal Jurisdiction
Replies
17
Views
1K
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
W
  • Locked
WTO says US' gambling laws illegal
Replies
7
Views
582
Boats
B
Gary Slider
  • Locked
Arkansas Now Permitless Carry
Replies
6
Views
1K
Olon
Olon
J
  • Locked
The Constitution: The Rights It Guarantees Are Not Optional
Replies
4
Views
518
Sean Smith
S
Back
Top