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Carry Options... Is your gun "shootable" under stress?

Bodycam videos have revealed that many cops have "shootable" problems with full-size duty pistols, usually caused by poor grip due to the haste of drawing to engage a sudden spontaneous threat. Magazines fall out and stoppages happen at a much greater rate of incidence than what happens on the shooting range.

This is why many folks are starting to carry a revolver because a revolver is finger powered and isn't dependent on acquiring a proper grip like an auto pistol does.
Taking most cops to the range to qual is the same as me taking my toddler to the dentist. They'll both kick, scream, and refuse to follow instructions.

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Agencies hate spending money on firearms and training. Combine the two, and they have mental breakdowns.
 
My reaction watching those 2 videos is, why did no one grab an AR15?
Taken to its logical conclusion, this is really the only way to "have enough gun" (Well, a radio, with a loitering Warthog on the other end would be good ;) )
Again, as armed civilians, we're not obliged to charge in. But a long gun remains a great choice for home defense.
Moon
 
I carry a six-shot Colt Agent in my strong side front pocket 99% of the time. It certainly is capable of respectable accuracy within 15 yards. I don’t feel under gunned carrying it, as I see it for what it is … a bad breath distance tool. I don’t ever envision rushing into an active shooter situation or engaging a raging mob of jihadists. Ever. I keep my head on a 360-degree swivel and never frequent places where trouble is likely to be found, day or night.
Problem is, bad things comes to good neighborhoods. I'm armed even when I mow the damn lawn. Why? Because people don't like me for what I do. I was a cop and folks didn't like that and now I'm a national spokesman for a national gun rights org. I've had my tires slashed, windows smashed, and death threats.

Never think that just because you avoid the "bad part of town" that the bad part of town won't cross over to the good part of town.
 
I went and watched those videos. I don't know who you're talking to but there is no way a single officer watching or taking part any of those videos would suddenly say "I want a 6 shot revolver in a gun fight."
My reaction watching those 2 videos is, why did no one grab an AR15? Yes I understand they needed to get out of their vehicles ASAP. My guess they don't have them in their vehicles (aren't authorized) or don't have them readily available in there vehicles.

The officer that kept dropping magazines - he needs more practice with that gun. Looks like a Sig 320 based on the trigger. Why does he only have 1 spare magazine?
View attachment 1208524

I spy an aftermarket magwell funnel:
View attachment 1208525
I bet he also has an extended mag release on that gun and that plus lack of training is why he's dropping mags.
The cops in the video are pursing a violent criminal with the intent to seize him, either by arresting him or killing him.

Private citizens don't do this.

In the overwhelming majority of situations, bad guys run away from defensive gunfire (just like the guys in the videos are doing).

The haste in which these officers are drawing a gun, while bailing out of cruisers in a hurry and running, to react to a spontaneous threat, caused some officers to have a compromised grip, which caused stoppages, and under the extreme stress of coming under deadly attack, had difficulty clearing the stoppages and getting their guns running again. These are duty sized pistols carried in OWB holsters, not small CCW pistols carried IWB, AIWB, or in a pocket.

A revolver is more forgiving of a compromised grip than an auto pistol when drawn in the haste and heat of the moment.
 
It's an article for police officers about carrying their duty weapon when they're off duty.

It's not relevant for me as a civilian.

If a civilian walks up on a strange situation and settles it by shooting someone from 25 yards away, they will likely end up incarcerated.

A civilian is also personally liable for every bullet that he fires.
 
It's an article for police officers about carrying their duty weapon when they're off duty.

It's not relevant for me as a civilian.

If a civilian walks up on a strange situation and settles it by shooting someone from 25 yards away, they will likely end up incarcerated.

A civilian is also personally liable for every bullet that he fires.
"Everyone" is responsible for every round they fire. Hopefully, everyone has been keeping up with things and is up to making the shot they get (rarely our choice) and have to take, with what they choose to carry.

And 25 yards isn't really a long shot in the real world. Its only about half the length of an aisle in your local supermarket. Pace it off next time you're there.
 
My buddy who was a national champion and came in second after Jerry, a few times - carried a semi for EDC. Lots of us can shoot revolvers at matches. Doesn't mean they are optimal as Tom Givens said - and I quoted several times. Do I feel helpless if I belt carried my revolver - no. Would I prefer a higher cap semi and easier to reload gun if I was in a high intensity fight - and NOT the mugger at the gas station - YES.
 
The cops in the video are pursing a violent criminal with the intent to seize him, either by arresting him or killing him.

Private citizens don't do this.


In the overwhelming majority of situations, bad guys run away from defensive gunfire (just like the guys in the videos are doing).

The haste in which these officers are drawing a gun, while bailing out of cruisers in a hurry and running, to react to a spontaneous threat, caused some officers to have a compromised grip, which caused stoppages, and under the extreme stress of coming under deadly attack, had difficulty clearing the stoppages and getting their guns running again. These are duty sized pistols carried in OWB holsters, not small CCW pistols carried IWB, AIWB, or in a pocket.

A revolver is more forgiving of a compromised grip than an auto pistol when drawn in the haste and heat of the moment.
Even in Stand Your Ground FL, you have two people in Miami that are facing criminal charges because their vehicle was broken into by a suspect and then they chased said suspect, got into a tussle, and in the end they shot the suspect.


Police said Antwoinse Lachaveia Clark, 36, and Fredericka Sherice Pickett-Wilson, 29, confronted the burglar, when they noticed him rummaging through their car belongings back in March. According to a police report, the couple confronted the burglar who investigators say punched Pickett-Smith in the face, then ran off with a bag that had cash inside. Police said the couple chased him to try get the bag back, and at one point, pepper sprayed him. However, Clark then allegedly shot him three times.

“The victims, which were the two arrested in this case, would’ve just held him down and waited for police to respond. We would have arrested him and they would have been the victims in this case, and that’s how this case would’ve gone. But when they followed him, they chased him down. He was no longer a threat to them,” said Michael Vega, a City of Miami Police spokesperson. “They followed him and shot him. That became a crime."

City of Miami Police told NBC6 there was a gun inside the bag and the shooter denied knowing it was there. Both women are being held without bond.
 
Problem is, bad things comes to good neighborhoods. I'm armed even when I mow the damn lawn. Why? Because people don't like me for what I do. I was a cop and folks didn't like that and now I'm a national spokesman for a national gun rights org. I've had my tires slashed, windows smashed, and death threats.

Never think that just because you avoid the "bad part of town" that the bad part of town won't cross over to the good part of town.
I don’t disagree with you - but there are places where the odds of danger are greater - and my point was that I intentionally don’t go there. I should have said there are places -in public - that I intentionally don’t go.
Stating that, I’m no less “de-tuned” just because I do live in a good neighborhood on the better side of my hamlet. I lock my doors - both car and house. I have ready access to defensive firearms and I expect to be on my own for the first moments in a critical encounter. The calvary isn’t coming to my rescue for a while.
 
Bodycam videos have revealed that many cops have "shootable" problems with full-size duty pistols, usually caused by poor grip due to the haste of drawing to engage a sudden spontaneous threat. Magazines fall out and stoppages happen at a much greater rate of incidence than what happens on the shooting range.

This is why many folks are starting to carry a revolver because a revolver is finger powered and isn't dependent on acquiring a proper grip like an auto pistol does.
Yep. Grip and manipulative-related issues can occur with pistols. Inducing grip-stability problems (hindering functioning), thumbing slides (sides or rear) and unintentionally pressing magazine catches can happen under stress, especially if someone hasn't thoroughly ingrained the proper and necessary skills so they're accessible unconsciously when desperately needed.

Notice in some of the videos that cops are sometimes doing themselves a disservice by trying to manipulate their weapons to solve the 'wrong problems', too. Stress, and hoping to do something that will be the right thing to do?

When you see these sort of things happening during normal training and quals, where stress is minimal and range conditions are carefully set up and managed, it does make you wonder how things will go if some folks ever have to try to function and make good decisions under exigent circumstances. Sigh. You can only tell some people so many times that you won't be 'there' to hold their hand and walk them through problems outside the range.

The simpler grip and pull of the DA revolver can still cause some users problems, though, especially if they don't allow the DA triggers to fully recover before trying to fire subsequent shots. Then, there's the problematic grip techniques some people try to use under stress, when their fingers and thumbs don't end up where they ought to be.
 
I carried as plain clothes law enforcement for years. Witnessed a number of felonys while on duty in plain clothes. I found during that period that a Kahr CW9 was a good balance between concealability and control. No issues making long shots with it, and I could hide it easily IWB. It's what I carry a lot these days. I nitpick with asserting that a guy who just wants to have some protection should ditch the LCP he carries in his pocket because head shots at 25 yards will be problematic. I still adhere to the first rule of a gun fight. I don't knock what other people chose that fits their lifestyle.

Anyone thinking of knocking a revolver, you can make that platform sing songs if you train just a bit to it. I've started training kinda hard on my post war M&P 38. Most folks at my agency can't shoot faster splits with a Glock than I can with that ancient relic, and my reloads with it are faster than your average officer who isn't a gun enthusiast does with a Glock (which fortunately, I have a lot of gun enthusiasts at my agency). A k frame Smith concealsneasy enough IWB too...
 
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Taking most cops to the range to qual is the same as me taking my toddler to the dentist. They'll both kick, scream, and refuse to follow instructions.

View attachment 1208569

Agencies hate spending money on firearms and training. Combine the two, and they have mental breakdowns.
That makes me laugh, because generally it's true. I just got a new Chief and Deputy Chief (from out of state). The Chief was higher up admin in Lee County Florida, the DC I'm pretty sure stayed close enough to the line that he carried a Case load the majority of the time he was there. They aren't your usual admin. They're pushing for firearms training. I'm happy to write classes and training plans (in between dealing with dopers, I keep a caseload myself), as it's a breath of fresh air to have admin that wants us to train. I'm afraid they aren't long foe this world though. Town hall will find a way to get rid of them lol.
 
Yeah, I've never tried shooting a firearm from an unusual position...

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I'm going to have to try that now. For fun, I can do several timed shot strings at 25 yards. I can do some just stating like that, and others I can run 100 yards before assuming the position.
 
I just have to say, carrying a pistol stuffed down the front of one's pants and pointed at your junk is not an option for everyone.



Problem is, bad things comes to good neighborhoods. I'm armed even when I mow the damn lawn. Why? Because people don't like me for what I do. I was a cop and folks didn't like that and now I'm a national spokesman for a national gun rights org. I've had my tires slashed, windows smashed, and death threats.

Never think that just because you avoid the "bad part of town" that the bad part of town won't cross over to the good part of town.
Yep. The "bad part" can climb through your window at any time.
 
Its good that we have lots of decent gear options available to us these days, and its good to explore as many different types as you can so you know whats available, and what works, or doesn't. You really have to wonder sometimes when you hear people say they cant carry a realistic gun.

Ive tried most of them too, and haven't yet found one that points at my junk.
 
It not pointed "at" my junk. ;)

That's not how the holster works.

AIWB points at my boy parts less than strong side points at my leg. Canted IWB tends to point at my gluteus maximus. At some point, I think you have to find a level of comfort with the muzzle pointing somewhere while holstered.

If someone has found a method to carry a concealed pistol that doesn't point somewhere that doesn't need a bullet hole at some point, I would love to see it. Carrying a carbine at "low ready" in two hands is probably the most correct method I've used that doesn't either sweep me or someone else, but that doesn't work for CCW does it?
 
I can look at the friggin' picture and see how they work. I don't have to stick a pistol in my drawers to know I don't want a pistol in my drawers. :rofl:
Obviously, you still dont have a clue as to how they work, and you arent doing yourself any favors acting like you do. ;)

And they "still" don't point at your junk. :)
 
Obviously, you still dont have a clue as to how they work, and you arent doing yourself any favors acting like you do. ;)

And they "still" don't point at your junk. :)
One doesn't have to be a brain surgeon to understand that not everybody can utilize the same carry options.

I don't have to stick a pistol in my drawers to know I don't want a pistol in my drawers.
 
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