Carry Safety

[Kleanbore]

I can't imagine how lint from carrying in the pocket of clean pants or jacket for 8 to 12 hours would build up to the point of causes a major malfunction with a properly cared for and maintainenced revolver, which required special tools to fix.

The fix was to remove the cylinder pin. That requires a tool.

He carries The gun all day, takes it out at night and wipes it clean, and wears clean clothing all the time. One is not allowed into his house without removing shoes.

The lint was un noticeable until it prevented the gun from functioning.

I cannot imagine carrying a gun without a holster.

 

[aaaaa]

Don't be this person.

Tennessee mother accidentally shot, killed teen daughter while rummaging in purse for keys: police

A Tennessee mother told Nashville police that she accidently shot her 13-year-old daughter when her pistol discharged in her purse while she was searching for her keys.

www.foxnews.com

Radley told police that she was reaching into her purse and accidentally pushed the trigger on her loaded .40-caliber semi-automatic pistol while searching for her keys.​

I suspect that there are a lot of women carrying like this. I am going to be paranoid every time I see a woman with a purse now.

 

[Styx]

The fix was to remove the cylinder pin. That requires a tool.

He carries The gun all day, takes it out at night and wipes it clean, and wears clean clothing all the time. One is not allowed into his house without removing shoes.

The lint was un noticeable until it prevented the gun from functioning.

I cannot imagine carrying a gun without a holster.

My pants/jacket pocket is the holster, does exactly what a holster does, so I consider the gun being in a holster. The one and only difference is my finger can access the trigger guard as I'm reaching my hand into my pocket, which I'm not concerned about because of the long and heavy 10lb+ pull. Other than that, there is no difference.

I still find that story improbable, and I feel that there's more to it. Plus, as everyone who carries on a regular basis is well aware of, carry guns still get lint on them, whether being carried in the pocket or elsewhere. A revolver carried IWB or OWB will have a built-up of lint. This isn't something that's exclusive to pocket carry. In my experience, I have not had excessive or a noticeable amount of lint on my LCR while pocket carrying like I often do when I carry on the belt.

 

[tarosean]

Last week we have a 24 year old mother shot in the stomach by her child in a town near me. (She lived)

Dont leave your guns laying around either!!

 

[aaaaa]

My pants/jacket pocket is the holster, does exactly what a holster does, so I consider the gun being in a holster. The one and only difference is my finger can access the trigger guard as I'm reaching my hand into my pocket, which I'm not concerned about because of the long and heavy 10lb+ pull. Other than that, there is no difference.

I thought about that but the freak accident I am bushwacking and a stick jams up against my leg at just the right spot to work the trigger as I pass through and i get a case of Glock Leg. Not that I do a lot of bushwacking but other situations could also do this. Yea, a freak thing, but I prefer to rule it out from my situation.

Also carrying in pocket without a holster probably is going to make a hole in the bottom of the pocket.

 

[AlexanderA]

I'll bet that mother has second thoughts now about the wisdom of carrying a gun.

The basic problem is that too many unqualified people are carrying. Not just "unqualified" in terms of knowledge, but also in terms of temperament.

While I am in principle in favor of permitless carry, there must be some way of getting people to take a training course before they carry.

 

[jmr40]

I'm going to catch flack for this, but this is where a loaded magazine and an empty chamber is my preference. I often carry a handgun in my glovebox or console. I've tried doing it with a loaded chamber, inside a holster, then inside the glovebox. It still takes 2 hands and some time to get the gun out of the holster when carried this way. I find it faster and easier to just chamber a round in this setting.

For quite a few years I carried a G29 in 10mm as my hiking/camping pistol. When worn on my hip I kept a round chambered but was never comfortable with a loaded chambered Glock in my sleeping bag as I slept. I kept an empty chamber at that time. When S&W came out with their M&P Compact in 10mm with a 1911 style safety I bought the 1st one I saw. It's only marginally larger than the Glock, but with a manual safety I will sleep with a loaded chamber.

Even the manual safety on a semi can become disengaged sliding around in a purse or glovebox. My wife carries in a small leather purse that she can carry over her shoulder or wear as a belt pack. There is a pocket just big enough for her Sig 365 to fit. IMO that serves exactly the same role as a holster and she carries with a loaded chamber, safety on.

 

[.308 Norma]

I'm going to catch flack for this, but this is where a loaded magazine and an empty chamber is my preference.

You won't "catch flack" for it from me, jmr40. AFAIC, it's your choice if you carry a loaded magazine and an empty chamber - it sure doesn't make me any less safe if you carry that way.

My wife carries in a small leather purse that she can carry over her shoulder or wear as a belt pack. There is a pocket just big enough for her Sig 365 to fit. IMO that serves exactly the same role as a holster and she carries with a loaded chamber, safety on.

As I've mentioned before on THR, my wife has kind of a "thing" for concealed carry purses. She has a lot of them. And all of my wife's concealed carry purses have one thing in common - a separate pocket (that's held closed by Velcro or a snap) on one side that has a holster in it that's held in place with Velcro.
The holsters in her concealed carry purses keep her gun's trigger covered as well, so I feel she's being reasonably careful when she's has a semi-auto with a loaded chamber (safety on) in her concealed carry purse.
Now how fast she can access that gun and get it ready for action - well, that's a different discussion.

 

[film495]

Scenarios like this is why I sometimes question "Constitutional" or like in Tennessee "Permitless" carry. While I completely agree with the idea that every law abiding citizen should have the right to carry, the idea that anyone, without even the faintest notion of gun safety or gun operation, can carry a loaded gun in a public place, makes me nervous. I can only wonder, if the mother had taken even a 4 hour safety course, if her daughter might still be alive.

stories like this are why I advocate against carrying with one in the chamber.

 

[DeepSouth]

I can't imagine how lint from carrying in the pocket of clean pants or jacket for 8 to 12 hours would build up to the point of causes a major malfunction with a properly cared for and maintainenced revolver, which required special tools to fix. The revolver I carry has a concealed hammer (Ruger LCR).

My brother bought a NAA mini that had a bulged barrel, the guy he bought it from said it was bad about getting plugged with pocket lint and was pretty sure that’s what caused the bulged barrel.

I’ve always wondered if that was the whole story.

 

[Old Dog]

stories like this are why I advocate against carrying with one in the chamber.

and we're off... almost knew someone would eventually say this.

There are these devices on handguns called "safeties" for the untrained, less trained or less confident folks.

 

[buck460XVR]

There are these devices on handguns called "safeties" for the untrained, less trained or less confident folks.

....yet we do not know if the mom in this scenario had a gun with a safety. Many of today's SD firearms come without one and there are many folks that advise against having a safety on a SD gun(you know, chance of failure, one more thing to forget under stress, etc.). Throw a gun with a large ambidextrous safety in a purse loaded with junk and odds are it can be disengaged also. Again, lack of common sense and education with firearms.

 

[Old Dog]

....yet we do not know if the mom in this scenario had a gun with a safety.

True, but I was responding to the gentleman who stated he's an advocate of chamber-empty carry (and he presumably carries in a belt holster?).

 

[film495]

and we're off... almost knew someone would eventually say this.

There are these devices on handguns called "safeties" for the untrained, less trained or less confident folks.

sure. but if there isn't a round in the chamber, this accident doesn't take place. worth saying, so I said it.

 

[JohnKSa]

Other than that, whose to say the woman's gun wasn't originally in a pocket holster? I can see how a gun could fall out of a pocket holster that's loose in a large purse compartment.

If it did, the pocket holster was no longer serving its function. Part of using equipment is making sure it is functioning as intended, especially when safety is a concern.

Anyway, a carry gun needs its own space. It doesn't need to be in with other stuff that one will need to be rummaging around for. If you need your keys, you don't need to be pushing a gun out of the way to get them. If you need your gun, you don't need to be messing around with your car keys or your chapstick to get your gun. People don't jam keys and breathmints into their holster with their gun, they shouldn't be jamming their gun in with other stuff either.

 

[Jim Watson]

Low accessibility carry reminds me of the SF barbarian who carried a blaster in a belt pouch in case his sword were not enough.

 

[drobs]

I'm going to catch flack for this, but this is where a loaded magazine and an empty chamber is my preference. I often carry a handgun in my glovebox or console. I've tried doing it with a loaded chamber, inside a holster, then inside the glovebox. It still takes 2 hands and some time to get the gun out of the holster when carried this way. I find it faster and easier to just chamber a round in this setting.

For quite a few years I carried a G29 in 10mm as my hiking/camping pistol. When worn on my hip I kept a round chambered but was never comfortable with a loaded chambered Glock in my sleeping bag as I slept. I kept an empty chamber at that time. When S&W came out with their M&P Compact in 10mm with a 1911 style safety I bought the 1st one I saw. It's only marginally larger than the Glock, but with a manual safety I will sleep with a loaded chamber.

Even the manual safety on a semi can become disengaged sliding around in a purse or glovebox. My wife carries in a small leather purse that she can carry over her shoulder or wear as a belt pack. There is a pocket just big enough for her Sig 365 to fit. IMO that serves exactly the same role as a holster and she carries with a loaded chamber, safety on.

1st off - Glocks or striker fired pistols that don't have a manual thumb safety absolutely require a rigid leather or kydex holster that protects the trigger. That's the 1st rule of carrying a chambered striker fired pistol - it must be in a holster that protects the trigger.

Soft leather or flexible leather holsters - can result in a ND/AD while the pistol is holstered.

SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges!

Editor-in-chief’s note: We’d like to thank the anonymous individual who came forward with this important information and allowed us to... View Article

www.itstactical.com

I go back to my carry gun storage solution - all loaded & chambered carry guns are kept loaded / chambered in their holsters at the end of the day.
When you come home you take your holstered, loaded, and chambered pistol off as 1 unit and either store it as such or leave it on your belt / pants. In the morning you put that holstered loaded / chambered pistol back on your belt or into your pocket. The only time you should be unloading your carry pistols is when going to the range or when cleaning it.

Camping, staying in a hotel, etc your chambered / holstered pistol goes in your sleeping bag or under the pillow with you.
In your vehicle - loaded holstered pistol goes in glove box or center console. However, I prefer to keep the pistol on me at all times, while driving.

I prefer a Kydex holster that clicks or "locks" on to the pistol and protects the trigger. A tight fitting rigid leather holster is good to go as well. Depending on the style of the holster, you may need two hands to get your pistol out of the holster, when the holstered pistol is not on your body.

I carry my pocket 9mm handguns in an Alabama Front Pocket Holster.

Front Pocket Holster – Alabamaholster.com

It has a corner of the holster folded out that allows you to push the holster off 1 handed.



So for women and purse carry / off body carry, they need to either have a holster mounted in their purse that retains the pistol or use a kydex holster that "locks" onto the pistol. They should be able to un-holster the pistol one handed but not have the pistol come loose of the holster on it's own. A proper RIGID holster would've prevented this tragedy.

jmr40 - I would recommend your wife use a kydex pocket holster or kydex trigger holster mounted to the inside of her purse. The problem with a pistol like a P365 or Glock that doesn't have a thumb safety is that the trigger could be pulled through a soft sided leather or cloth purse.

TRIGGER SHEATH - SIG SAUER P365

Secure your Sig Sauer P365 with our custom trigger sheath. Protects against accidental discharge while maintaining quick access. Shop for safety today!

www.clipdraw.com

The trigger holster could also be your 1 handed draw solution for a glove box or console box stored pistol. Tie or bolt the end to something.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I can't imagine how lint from carrying in the pocket of clean pants or jacket for 8 to 12 hours would build up to the point of causes a major malfunction with a properly cared for and maintainenced revolver, which required special tools to fix. The revolver I carry has a concealed hammer (Ruger LCR).

Our late range officer wanted to test his pocket carried LCP carry loads through my chronograph, but he didn't want to be the one to shoot the skyscreens on the old Ohler. So I had to do it, and a huge cloud surrounded the gun after the shot. His handloads, were, ahem, 'energetic', so we all thought the gun had blown.
It was, instead, pocket lint. And that damned LCP went ahead and cycled the next round, lint and all.
I'd like them better, if they weren't so miserable to shoot.

Moon

 

[sgt127]

The fix required a special tool. Videos abound on this.

I have seen carry guns, particularly revolvers, in deplorable condition. But, none requiring a special tool to fix. Unless, there is mechanical damage.

That sounds more like he dropped it, flat on its side and sheared the center pin. And, didn’t mention that part.

Unless the lint was mixed with JB weld, I can’t see it rendering the gun inoperative.

But, I’d like to see a video describing it.

 

[Kleanbore]

I have seen carry guns, particularly revolvers, in deplorable condition. But, none requiring a special tool to fix. Unless, there is mechanical damage.

Alrighty then. This was a first for me. But not to the gunsmith fixed it.

The cylinder would neither turn nor swing out.

The side plate was removed, the pin was removed (that requires a tool),and the gun was cleaned and lubed.

Fixed it completely.

There are videos on how to remove the cylinder pin, and on how to make the tool.

 

[wayneinFL]

Scenarios like this is why I sometimes question "Constitutional" or like in Tennessee "Permitless" carry. While I completely agree with the idea that every law abiding citizen should have the right to carry, the idea that anyone, without even the faintest notion of gun safety or gun operation, can carry a loaded gun in a public place, makes me nervous. I can only wonder, if the mother had taken even a 4 hour safety course, if her daughter might still be alive.

In my state they require a driver's education course now. If you're over 18, they require at least 50 hours of night driving. And you have to pass a practical test. And you should see all the people with bent cars on the side for the road every day.

Just because someone can recite a safety rule (rules that should be common sense), it doesn't mean they're going to follow the rule or be safe.

 

[Styx]

In my state they require a driver's education course now. If you're over 18, they require at least 50 hours of night driving. And you have to pass a practical test. And you should see all the people with bent cars on the side for the road every day.

Just because someone can recite a safety rule (rules that should be common sense), it doesn't mean they're going to follow the rule or be safe.

Plus, you get into a case where low income can not afford the $100-$200 class, the ammo, and the fees associated with obtaining the state license. Then you have the wait time to the day the class is scheduled to the day they get down to whichever place handles permitting, to the weeks to months wait for the permit. Then you have the fees every 5 or so years.


@buck460XVR I'd be okay with the state creating a gun safety educational video online, and requiring all gun FFL hand gun buyers a written gun safety and state law synopsis that also has the URL to the safety video on it. It could also have information to where to obtain more training. That seems like a fair, non intrusive route that might prevent some accidents.