Carrying at Westfield shopping centers.

[drone23]

After discovering that a local Westfield owned shopping center has a 'no weapons' policy I wrote them a letter and asked them to reconsider for lawfully licensed people. The following is their response. Since they obviously do not want our business, I recommend that we all boycott all Westfield owned properties and write them respectful letters letting them know that we intend to do so.





Thank you for your message to Westfield. We appreciate hearing from our customers and would like to answer your question:

Westfield's corporate policy for all properties in our portfolio is that no weapons of any kind are permitted in our shopping malls. The reason for our policy is the safety of our customers and retailers. We do not believe our policy infringes upon any constitutional rights of the individuals who choose to shop in our centers. As you are no doubt aware, the owners of public and private venues such as sporting event sites, universities, government buildings and transportation facilities (to name just a few ) have similar policies prohibiting weapons on their property.

Although we suspect you will continue to disagree with our policy, as is your right, we hope you will respect our right to create a safe and friendly shopping environment for our customers.

Very sincerely,

Peter Schwartz [email protected]

General Counsel

Westfield Corporation, Inc.

 

[F4GIB]

You can find their Shopping Centers through this link:
http://www.westfield.com/us/centres/

 

[Mike Irwin]

You now need to contact EVERY merchant at the Westfield mall at which you shop. You need to let them know because of the landlord's stance, YOUR money will be going elsewhere.

Westfields doesn't care if you take your money elsewhere. The individual stores do, though, and if their business is hurt badly enough they can get Westfields to change its policy.

 

[F4GIB]

edited

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Do they ban licensed carry in every state (or do they just discriminate where they think they can get away with it)???

Apparently they DO only discriminate where they think they can get away from it. Westfield operates the Valley Fair shopping center in Santa Clara, California. No signs mentioning weapons of any sort and I can't think of a time when I haven't carried when I've gone to that mall.

It may just be a result of being in Cali; business don't even think about posting 'no firearms' signs at their entrances, because it would never even occur to them that Californians might be armed. One of the (very) small perks of CCW in California.

edit- I have a certain perverse desire to notify Mr. Schwartz of this oversight and see if they post a sign. I'd be extremely curious to see what the general public's reaction would be- 'What's this no firearms sign? You mean the average person can carry a gun? What's that you say? Not in this state? Why not?'

 

[spacemanspiff]

while i dont have a westfield shopping center in my state, i fired off this email to the schwartz:

Dear Mr. Schwartz

I am writing you because of your reply to a concerned citizen about the lawful possession of firearms in the Westfield shopping malls.

I will quote your own words:

The reason for our policy is the safety of our customers and retailers.

Safety from what? A criminal who seeks to victimize one of your customers or retailers? Have you considered who will respect the policy of Westfield? Is it the good guys who have obtained concealed weapons permits and been subjected to state and federal background checks, or the bad guys who are criminals and will take their weapons anywhere they want no matter what kind of policy is in place?

Your policy will NOT prevent a criminal from taking a weapon of any sort into a Westfield shopping center. All it will do is prevent the good guys from being able to defend themselves.

Does Westfields liability insurance protect against claims filed by those injured or the families of those killed because of Westfields ‘weapon-free zone’?

You also mentioned other places where possession of a weapon is prohibited, but those are not POLICY, those are LAW. It is UNLAWFUL to possess a weapon in a government building. It is NOT unlawful to possess a weapon on Westfields premises, it is AGAINST POLICY.

Most of the places that have made possession of a weapon ILLEGAL (not against policy) have security staff and metal detectors that everyone entering must pass through. Does Westfield have metal detectors at the entrances to stop weapons or other contraband from being on the premises?

If Westfields policy can not guarantee 100% that their weapons policy will be adhered to, it is entirely useless. Do you know what a criminal thinks when they see a building with a sign that says ‘weapons prohibited’? Is it “Oh gee, I was all set on robbing that shop, but this sign says I cant take my gun/knife/hammer in there so I better not do it.’
Or is it more likely they think “HELLO! No one will be able to stop me from robbing this place, since the good guys all are unarmed!â€

Think about it.

 

[Pheonix]

Spacemanspiff
If you get a response please share it with us.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I don't do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots, nor would I do business with any organization that discriminated against races, creeds, colors, et cetera.

 

[George S.]

I don't recall seeing any signage at the Westfield mall here in Olympia, WA that specifically states that guns are prohibited. That may be their policy, but I sure that does not totally prevent people carrying concealed in the mall. I bet that those people who illegally carry a gun don't give a rip about their policy.

If a person properly carries his gun so that it doesn't print, then to me it's a non-issue; if you can't see it how does the mall know you are carrying?? There are no metal detectors at the doors and they haven't instituted any pat-down search policy. The corporations concerns about safety may be valid to them, but I really think it's more of a concern regarding any potential damage or injury liability rather than safety of their customers. It's interesting that the letter reply was from an attorney rather than a corporate officer.

Washington state does have laws against carrying weapons in certain places like state buildings, bars, schools and a few other spots but there is nothing in WA state law that precludes lawful carrying anywhere else. Our CCW permits are also not valid on Indian reservations or Federal property such as military bases or cdrtain forest lands.

The security guy at the local mall is a real azz. He has this holier-than-thou and at times a Gestapo attitude. A number of years ago, my dad fell and broke his hip leaving the mall. As soon as he showed up, he insisted in asking my dad why he didn't watch where he was walking instead of being concerned about his injury. I was just about ready to twist this idiot into a pretzel when the medics and police showed up. So as far as Westfield Shopping Town goes they can take a flying leap....

 

[drone23]

Of course we could ignore the signs and chances are that nobody would ever know. But that is not the point now is it? The point is we have looked the other way when it comes to these kinds of rules for too long. The more complacent we are with these kinds of rules, the more places will attempt to enforce them. Eventually lawmakers will say, since they are not allowed anywhere anyway, lets just ban guns entirely. I know that we are a far cry from that point, but let us not give them a means to their end. To me, this sign is no less offensive than if it said “No African Americans†or “No Homosexualsâ€. Excluding a basic constitutionally protected right based on bias and irrational fear is wrong…period.

-D

 

[Langenator]

When I was stationed at Ft Lewis, I visited the Olympia Mall on a few occasions, and always took my pistol with me. Don't ever recall seeing any "No guns" signs.

Even if there were, IIRC the most they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can only be arrested for trespass.

Not sure if Westfield owns any of the malls here in Columbia. I'll have to look next time I am unable to avoid having my wife drag me there.

 

[Dave R]

Drat! No Westfield shopping centers in Idaho. Oh, well, I may go ahead and join in the letter writing fun.

I had a blast participating in the successful Applebee's boycott and letter-writing campaign. Right down to the "thank you for re-considering your policy; I'm going to Applebee's to celebrate" follow-up letter.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I suggest guerilla action.

Print out a few of these:



...and paste them on the entrance doors to the mall. Repeat as necessary.

 

[bill2]

ccw in the bay area?

pparently they DO only discriminate where they think they can get away from it. Westfield operates the Valley Fair shopping center in Santa Clara, California. No signs mentioning weapons of any sort and I can't think of a time when I haven't carried when I've gone to that mall.

It may just be a result of being in Cali; business don't even think about posting 'no firearms' signs at their entrances, because it would never even occur to them that Californians might be armed. One of the (very) small perks of CCW in California.
_________________________
quarterbore gunner: you live in S.F. and have a CCW? you're very lucky. I read in one article that Sheriff Mike Hennessy (spelling) said he had only issued one CCW to some private investigator and did not see the need for any others to be issued. you must have the goods on Sen Diane Feinstein or something to get a CCW.

How did you get one? if you don't mind my asking. I live in Fremont, and I've never heard of anyone getting one, except for a retired cop I know.

 

[Majic]

Why get upset?
Life is full of choices. Just decide if you want to follow their rules on their property or go someplace that appreciates your business without additional rules.
You can't demand that your right be respected while you ignore the rights of others. That's fundamentally wrong.

 

[gunsmith]

There goes QB! rubbing it in again!



bill2, believe me,you wouldn't want to get a CCW the same way QB got his!

He certainly gots all us po "bay area ans" green with envy though!

I carry in SF all the time without CCW.
A cop friend of mine said "better to be judged by 12 then carried by six"
and "if you shoot a bad guy don't stick around,they won't look for ya very long,and please remove your brass as well,littering is a crime"

 

[drone23]

Majic,

So by your thinking, prior to the 60's if you saw a sign which read "no blacks" you would have said that it is the owners right to discriminate? In my opinion, discrimination against a constitutionally protected right is no better then discrimination against a race or sex.

-D

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Uh..yeah. My method of CCW issuance is not suggested as a viable alternative to the standard approach.

Bill2- check your PMs

 

[p35]

At least here in WA, if you have a CCW permit the worst they can do is kick you out of the mall (technically could be trespass 2 but I doubt anyone would file it). So what if they do? Why spend money there anyway if they're going to be jerks about it?

 

[Majic]

Drone23,
Being born in the 50's, in the south, and black I have seen the signs stating no blacks. The signs were at select locations inside the establishments, but not at the entrance except for small bars, small resturants, and few other minor establishments. Forty years later the signs are gone, but a lot of the attitudes haven't changed in some places. You can't legislate feelings or opinions. Only time will solve that problem.
When trampling a right you should examine it closely for once it's gone "Evil" now has an equal chance to step up to bat.
It's your right to bear arms, but it's also the owners right to have a say over his property. No one ever had the right to do as they please on someone else's property. Label it discrimination or anything you please and actually it was wrong of the government to saddle the merchants after the civil unrest, if they were providing a equal service for all customers. To be totally fair and non-discriminatory there should be no seperate facilities for men and women, but there are.

 

[atek3]

In my co-op we had co-ed bathrooms and showers, worked really well I might add

atek3

 

[morganm01]

Get a nice formal letter written on some lawyers letterhead, and "inquire" as to their "policy" on compensation for injuries suffered to their disarmed patrons. Be very serious.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

morganm01- now THAT is an excellent idea! Nothing puts the fear into a business like a possible civil liability suite.

atek3-

In my co-op we had co-ed bathrooms and showers, worked really well I might add

Yeah, I'll bet they 'worked out' really well... you damn hippies with your free love.