cartridge reloading with 777

[Voodoochile]

Good morning my fellow shooters.
I normally just shoot my C&B revolvers or muzzle loaders with real black & my grandfather's .44-40 Colt with it too, the rest of my reloading is done with modern smokeless powder for 30-06 & other moder rounds.

I've got a buddy who has 2 .45-70 firearms, a modern Marlin Scout Carbine & a BFR & he normally shoots what's available from the big stores & I have finally convinced him to reload for it because of the cost of the ammo but the problem is no one has any smokeless powder.
I have available some 777 & primers & his dies, will loading a by volume load of say 63-65 grains of 777 be safe for his guns?

Now the 63-65 is just a guess on what the case will hold with a 405gr. Lead projectile without any real compression "I know 777 doesn't like to be compressed" but since it is the cleanest of the 2 substitute Black Powder that I have I thought to ask before loading since I've never used it in a cartridge before.

 

[StrawHat]

http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

 

[Voodoochile]

Okay so by that info it seems that I can fill the case, give it a few taps to settle & as long as the level is about 1/8" below the case mouth I can seat the projectile & go.

I'm used to using the 1 foot drop tube to load the .44-40 & get almost 35gr. In them but then I can compress real BP.

 

[rdstrain49]

If you are using a commercially available hard cast 405 with smokeless lube, accuracy will likely suck. All of the substitutes I have used in the 45-70 require BP lube. Even in cartridge loads, proper bullet lube is critical to good accuracy.

 

[Voodoochile]

Oh yeah, it will definitely be my mixture of 50/50 Crisco & Bees Wax for Lube.
I was fortunate to get a mold for the 405 gr from another friend that got out of it.

 

[EljaySL]

Note that you're supposed to use 2F in cartridges (see the link above, just wanted to make sure you saw that).

Bees wax and any kind of fat should be fine. I use mutton tallow, but I've got a bunch of it.

In terms of filling the case, the margin's definitely smaller with 777 since you're not supposed to compress it. I kind of did a lot of holding a bullet next to the case and eyeballing loads. In retrospect I wonder if it would have been faster to use the bullet to mark the case - put inletting compound on it, set it and pull it, something like that.

 

[Hellgate]

Voodoochile said: "Okay so by that info it seems that I can fill the case, give it a few taps to settle & as long as the level is about 1/8" below the case mouth I can seat the projectile & go."

Uhh, I wouldn't do that because the long projectile will heavily compress the powder and really jack up pressures. You don't want to compress more than about 1/10" or maybe .25".

 

[BowerR64]

I think ide try only a few at a time first and see how fouled up everything gets before i make up a bunch of them.

These cap and ball revolvers are bad enough to clean the fouling out of i couldnt imagine any other gun i have being so fouled up i had to tear down every part and clean it.

Maybe cartridges keep the fouling to a minimal i dont know but just to let you know this stuff is DIRTY with a capital D

 

[StrawHat]

The one line in the linked article you need to understand.

"...Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only... "

 

[BHP FAN]

Well, I got pretty good results with 55 grains of 2F Triple Seven, a card wad, a .44/.45 Wonder Wad, and an unlubed 405 grain .459 slug. The Wonder Wad was about a year old, so it wasn't sopping wet, and the card wad kept the lube that was left in the Wonder Wad from contaminating the powder. Triple Seven is pretty clean burning anyway, but the Wonder Wads not only took up space in the case, they also seemed to ''clean'' the barrel with each shot. Clean up was a pull though with a Bore Snake, damp patch, and then a dry patch in my original 1884 Trapdoor. A patch with a little WD40 on it was pushed through the bore for storage.

 

[BowerR64]

Phil has mentioned WD40 a few times but ive had WD40 get gummy over time on things.

 

[BHP FAN]

''ive had WD40 get gummy over time on things''...
Me too, in moving parts, but as bore oil for storage it works pretty well.

 

[Pulp]

Voo, take a piece of 3/8ths dowel and set it next to a bullet. Mark the dowel at the crimp ring of the bullet. Then put just enough 777 into a case so the dowel just touches it when your mark is on the rim of the case, or no more than 1/16 or so above the rim. Weigh that charge of powder, and there's your load.

 

[EljaySL]

Ah, I knew there must be a better way to do it.

 

[Voodoochile]

Pulp, that is the best idea yet.
Ofcorse I was thinking of a more complicated way of doing it but ya can't beat a simple solution like that.

Thanks guys.