Case Hardening and Smokeless Powder

[MattMaier]

Hey all. I'm interested in starting to build firearms as a hobby. My main area of interest is in the firearms of the mid to late 19th century, say from the period of 1870-1900.

Having studied machining, I am familiar with some heat treatment techniques used on steel. One of them being case hardening. I know that a particular type of case hardening was used called color case hardening, but that's another topic.

I am wondering if a case hardened receiver would be safe to use with smokeless rounds. I am asking this because materials cost is a concern, but if it is not safe, then I will spring for an alloy such as 4140.

 

[Jim Watson]

What action type, what caliber, what pressure range?

Colt and Winchester, etc. built a lot of guns for smokeless ammo out of mild steel, casehardened or not, depending on the part.

 

[MattMaier]

What I want to build is a copy of the Winchester 1897 in 12 gauge. And I found the SAAMI pressures for a 3 inch magnum round to be 11,500. To tell the truth, I am very new to this so there is a bunch that I need to research on. Basically, I want it to be able to fire modern buckshot loads from a 2 3/4 shell.

 

[Jim Watson]

Never saw a casehardened Winchester '97, I figure they were using good quality steel OF THE PERIOD and the old guns hold up pretty well with fresh shells.
But I don't think a scratch built firearm is the place to economize on materials.

 

[rcmodel]

Building a 97 Winchester from scratch is a bigger project then most real good gunsmiths would/could tackle!!

You sure about that idea?

rc

 

[Jim K]

Case hardening was used on the old guns to reduce wear from the working of the internal parts; the decorative effect of the color was a byproduct of some case hardening techniques.

Case hardening was necessary because the old frames were wrought iron, not steel, and could wear quickly. When hardened steel became available, many manufacturers discontinued case hardening or kept it for its cosmetic effect. (Winchester dropped it except by special order; Colt kept it on the SAA but not on their DA revolvers.)

In any event, there is no reason to use color case hardening on hardened steel except for decoration, but some guns, mainly military arms, have been made with a surface hardening for durability. As to strength, case hardening is a surface treatment and has no effect on strength unless the coloring process involves enough heat to affect the regular heat treatment.

Jim

 

[MattMaier]

"Building a 97 Winchester from scratch is a bigger project then most real good gunsmiths would/could tackle!!

You sure about that idea?"

Well, I do work as a machinist, so I believe I could do it. I have done many a project where there is a lot of small parts, but it is actually easier than it looks. It's the sheer volume of parts that I think would turn most people off. Besides, if I fail the first time, then I just try again

Well, 4140 it is then.

 

[Jim K]

Well, Browning did it.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes, but it took him two tries, the '93 was a flop.

 

[rcmodel]

And you shoulda seen the scrap iron pile behind the shop before they cleaned the place up in December 1895.

For the ceremony when Utah was admitted to the union in 1896!!

rc

 

[MattMaier]

I'm not going to go off of nothing. I plan on buying an 1897 so I can take it apart and study it. Reverse engineering if you will. Before any of you ask why I would want to build one if I will have one, I don't really know why myself. I guess I just think it would be fun.

 

[Jaxondog]

If you have the tools and knowledge to do it, of course it would be fun. Go for it.