case head separation

[Hondo 60]

I have a Colt 25 acp & was at the range yesterday.
While firing Fiocchi brand ammo, it jammed.

When I popped the magazine out, I saw that a case
had separated from the head.

I have the head (I'm gonna contact Fiocchi on Monday)
but I don't know how to get the case out.

I tried tapping it out using a wooden dowel, but the dowel
started to crack.

I'm not tapping very hard either.
By the way, as I'm sure you can tell, I'm not a gun smith.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

Start by putting a few drops of penetrating oil or bore solvent on it and let it soak.

Then, get a .30 cal bronze bore brush.
Run it halfway into the chamber, then jerk it back out.

The bent over backwards bristles should snag onto the case mouth and pull it out.

I am not at all sure why a .25 ACP case would break like that.
Normally emptys will blow themselves out of a blow-back operated gun like your little Colt, even with a broken extractor hook.

When you do get it out, I would use the same .30 bore brush & solvent in an electric drill and really clean the crap out of the chamber.

It must be rusty, or badly carbon fouled for a case to get that good a grip on it.

rc

 

[Hondo 60]

Done!

thanks rc.

I checked the barrel & it was somewhat fouled, but I didn't think it was overly so.
After scrubbing with Hoppe's #9 it took 4 patches to come out clean.
I then checked it with a bore light & it looked very clean & shiney, with no rust.

Still gonna contact Fiocchi, because I don't want to shoot anymore from that lot number.

 

[Hondo 60]

Contacted Fiocchi.
They asked for the lot number on the ammo box, my name & address
Then they had me take a digital pic & email it to them.
Finally they emailed back & suggested I have a gunsmith check the gun for excessive headspace.

Did you know that Fiocchi. when translated to English is Flakes?
Kinda flakey ammo it seems

Seriously though, I've been using Fiocchi ammo for a while now as my LGS almost always has it on sale.
$17.99 for 357 mag (when I need brass for reloading) & the 40 gr 22lr works GREAT in my little (very finicky) Beretta Bobcat.
Never had an issue before, & certainly haven't ever seen case head sep in handgun ammo.

 

[rcmodel]

suggested I have a gunsmith check the gun for excessive headspace.

Baloney!
This is a .25 ACP blow-back we are talking about here.
Headspace in a .25 ACP has nothing to do with anything as long as it is close enough for the firing pin to reach the primer.

As I said earlier, some guns, like the Beretta 950 Jetfire for instance, doesn't even have an extractor.
They depend on case slip in the chamber to blow them out.
They only develop 25,000 CUP MAX, and normally much less.
That is not enough pressure to seize the case in the chamber and blow the head off.

I think you got hold of some defective brass, or some way over-pressure ammo.
Whether they will fess up to it or not is another matter.

rc

 

[Jim K]

Well, not quite. A .25 ACP can have headspace problems just like a .30-'06.

When the pressure builds, the case walls are forced against the chamber walls and if the breech is not fully closed or the headspace is excessive, the back part of the case can be forced back and separate. And 25k CUP is quite enough pressure to do just that.

The breech is not locked mechanically, but the inertia of the slide keeps it in place until pressure drops. If the slide moves too soon (is too light, for example) or does not close completely, what Hondo experienced can happen. The recoil spring, be it noted, has little to do with resisting pressure in a blowback gun; it can slow the slide down, but its main function is to return the slide to battery.

Jim

 

[Clark]

I have only had one case head separation, and that was in an overload work up with 10mm. I continued up the work up and went much higher before other problems stopped me.

It must have been a freak flaw in the brass.

I am always working on overload testing, and I do not normally see case separation in once fired brass. The above pic shows a 223 round really getting stretched, but it does not quite separate.

25acp brass failure with pressure is typically ~ 275% powder charge, primer falls out, extractor groove grows, and fails to eject.

What does it all mean?
The OP 25acp case separation was a freak flaw in the brass.

 

[fguffey]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341348

He said it must have been a double charge!

and you say:

"I have only had one case head separation, and that was in an overload work up with 10mm. I continued up the work up and went much higher before other problems stopped me"

"It must have been a freak flaw in the brass"

and then you say:

"What does it all mean"?

"The OP 25acp case separation was a freak flaw in the brass"

And I say it is time to quit reloading if the flaw is in the brass. I am not an island, I am surrounded by very talented builders, smiths and reloaders, when something goes and they have to retrieve parts at the firing range they will determine what went wrong, they determine the answer, (if it is a flawed case it is time to stop building and reloading) it is not always required to agree, I have been accused of doing some very risky stuff, I listen and take the advise very serious but time is a factor and that is not a factor that will fly on a reloading forum. Because on a reloading forum the firing pin drives the primer, case, bullet and powder forward to the shoulder before the firing pin crushes the primer. And then someone quotes Hatcher.

F. Guffey

 

[rcmodel]

I think the point Clark was trying to make was the same one I was trying to make in post #5.

A case head separation in a blow-back operated pistol firing a straight-wall .25 ACP cartridge is next to impossible due to excess headspace.

It is extremely rare in any straight-wall handgun caliber, assuming the chamber doesn't have deep machining marks or rust pits to lock the case in the chamber and preventing it from slipping back against the breach-face.

I agree it was defective brass.

rc

 

[fguffey]

For me this is not a popularity contest, the front of the case is still there, the rear of the case left, where is the spring back, memory or case jump back.

F. Guffey

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If you have to lend to be a friend then friendship come to high.

 

[murf]

i don't think i can handle the stress!

murf

 

[Clark]

fguffey

For me this is not a popularity contest, the front of the case is still there, the rear of the case left, where is the spring back, memory or case jump back.

F. Guffey

If one ties a 2" diameter rope to the back of his Honda car, and takes off and the rope breaks, yes his forward motion broke the rope. But it could not do it if the rope was in good working order.

Popularity? Usually on gun forums it is 10:1 against ME in a controversy. I think of it as consumerism vs engineering, but I would say each person needs their own mantra to keep believing in themselves.
To quote Fritz Perl, "It doesn't matter how many dogs bark up the wrong tree, it is still the wrong tree."

 

[rcmodel]

Heck, I didn't even know we were voting?

I'm still confused about that right there!

rc