case loader for RCBS 2000

[mooseman1]

anyone know if and when we pro 2000 owners can get a caseloader for it?the bullet feeder is nice but a case feeder would be great.

 

[J2FLAN]

Don`t know-
But tell me, do you think the bullet feeder is a big plus? For the life of me I can`t see it being one. I have owned a few of progressives one had the bullet feeder. On my Pro 2000 I load the bullet (any profile) with the left hand and the brass with the right, start to finish I belive I can get it done just as fast and better than useing all those add-on gagets. Maybe I am just in a rut But I will give you, a press with all that stuff does have a LOOK to it.

 

[GW Staar]

anyone know if and when we pro 2000 owners can get a caseloader for it?the bullet feeder is nice but a case feeder would be great.

You may have to wait for the next reincarnation of an RCBS progressive. On the Pro 2000, because station 1 (where a case is fed) is in front with the APS primer system just below, the front casting to the right and finished case ejection to the left, it's pretty difficult to design a good working case feeder that's not in the way of other operations.

The reason for that architecture is to make hand feeding of both cases and bullets possible with the left hand allowing the right hand to never have to leave the handle of the press. That's a good thing, while one learns the progressive, recoups the funds spent on it to the point one can afford to upgrade with a respectable bullet feeder.

Both Hornady and Dillon architecture make it easier to mount a case feeder...the Dillon 650 at the expense of hand loaders who can't swing the expense of the case feeder at first. Ever seen a Dillon catalog showing a picture of the 650 press without the case feeder? That's a hell of an expensive "option" that isn't really. 650's are great machines as long as you buy the case feeder.

RCBS chose to design and develop bullet feeders instead. (or maybe because of their design) When you analyze it, a bullet feeder (if you have to choose just one feeder) is better, because it is faster & easier to place a case on the shell plate by hand, than the hand-aligning of a bullet on a case mouth and keeping it aligned into the seater. (no possibility of smashed fingers either)

All that is well and good...an "equalizer" to the other two presses, but RCBS made their bullet feeders workable on the two case-fed presses as well. Nice of them wasn't it. But reality for me, is that both sides automated is more speed and less control than I am comfortable with. Others with quicker detail-oriented talents & faculties may feel safer.

I personally would enjoy at least one feeder...and since I use the Pro 2000, it will have to be a bullet feeder. I waited for the RCBS pistol feeder from 2009's comdex to release in August...but it uses two stations and requires over-belled cases. I didn't buy it. Comdex 2010 came and we saw a single station Rifle feeder. So again I waited months until it is now available. but now they expect you to buy three collators! One for several pistol (reasonable) and one for just .22 cal. and another for .30 caliber. Now I'm just pissed me off...really pissed off with RCBS. What they promised, as an "equalizer," isn't is it? The case feeders/collators of Dillon and Honady work for most pistol and rifle cases. One collator, not three.

So now Hornady is making a new Pistol Collator/Feeder with optional changeovers for most pistols....and rifle kits for it is coming. The Hornady again uses up two stations to feed and seat, but at least ONE COLLATOR will do it all, for crying out loud.

I will be buying the Hornady Bullet feeder for my Pro 2000. RCBS can stick theirs where the sun doesn't shine! RCBS is "thinking" about making "kits" for the rifle collator so you buy .22 for example, and get a kit for .30. That, they say will depend on requests, sales, and demand. STUPID! They are guaranteeing low sales by making a product for only one caliber.

 

[GW Staar]

Don`t know-
But tell me, do you think the bullet feeder is a big plus? For the life of me I can`t see it being one. I have owned a few of progressives one had the bullet feeder. On my Pro 2000 I load the bullet (any profile) with the left hand and the brass with the right, start to finish I belive I can get it done just as fast and better than useing all those add-on gagets. Maybe I am just in a rut But I will give you, a press with all that stuff does have a LOOK to it.

Just a 50% increase in production. The question isn't about the worthwhileness of one, just about the stuff I posted about, like stations required, caliber change capability, economics, and the unreasonable redundancy and waste of space, of having to buy more than one collator.

 

[Tilos]

I don't like trying to pickup both a bullet and case by feel, or looking away from the press to pick them up.

For me, the bullet feeder makes more sense and gravity fed, through the die will fit any press.
Even without the collator and just filling a tube with bullets would improve the process for me.
Again for me, a case is easier oriented in my hand, without looking at it, and sometimes needs to be guided into the sizing die.

I don't want to highjack this thread, but has anyone tried that Lee bullet feeder for $35?

 

[jmorris]

start to finish I belive I can get it done just as fast and better than useing all those add-on gagets

You can run as fast as this video without bullet/case feed?



I owned a 650 for a while before buying the case collator, it’s not the end of the world and unlike the Hornady the case feed is factory set and pretty much fool proof.

All of the bullet feeders that are or have been available work with standard dies with the exception of the GSI bullet feeders.

The reason you get more speed is because you have less control. Mechanical orientation of the bullet is a lot faster and more repeatable that your hand is over time. Think about how long it takes you to sharpen your knife, in that amount of time a machine at a factory somewhere sharpened 1000 razorblades (or more).


If they don't offer it and you have the tools and time you could always build your own.

Here is a case collator I built.


And a video of the case feeder I built for a SD (Dillon doesn't offer one).

 

[jmorris]

I don't want to highjack this thread, but has anyone tried that Lee bullet feeder for $35?

I did a long time ago, give a waitress a $30 tip on a $5 meal, the money will be better spent.

 

[GW Staar]

While your efforts with the Dillon works perfect and is neater than hell, you can't do that on a Pro 2000. It would keep you from reloading your APS primer system. Having been thoroughly converted to APS, IMO the APS system is way more important than a case feeder as long as one can succeed in adding a bullet feeder/collator that works for everything you reload.

With a homemade collator, you could buy Hornady's coming bullet feeder dies ($22 or $23 each depending where you look) and feed them with your own collator design. With your skills that would be a cheap and easy way to feed any bullet, once Hornady gets their rifle versions figured out and instock at Midway....I'm looking forward to them.

Now, we will really think you are half-god, if you can figure out away to collate and feed lubed, non-jacketed lead pistol bullets, without gumming up the works! Dillon, RCBS, Hornady, will all fight over paying you for the invention as well.

 

[jmorris]

The case collator above started life feeding bullets into my homemade sizing machine and then into the bullet feeder on my 650.




It took a bit of work and I added a culling device to ensure no inverted bullets made it into the feeder, halting an otherwise smooth process.




The KISS style collator is a simple device though, I build mine from 6" PVC pipe and 1/2" Hyvar plastic.



Here is what the fixtures look like for making the "teeth". The top fixture is for the .45 collator (left) and the one in the center is for my 38/357 feeder but I used the same fixture as my 9mm collator (right). For .223 and .30 cal bullets you need to stack two 1/2" wheels on top of each other for a 1" total but the "flipper" is simple for rifle.

For pistol I stick with the GSI bullet feeders as I can retain a powder check die and still seat and crimp in two steps.

 

[GW Staar]

For pistol I stick with the GSI bullet feeders as I can retain a powder check die and still seat and crimp in two steps.

That's always been my gripe with Mr Bullet Feeder's, RCBS's, and now even Hornady's pistol feeders...feeds and seats in two stations. You were able to get GSI to sell you the feeder parts without the collator???

I'm anxious to see how the single station RCBS rifle bullet feeder works. Being supported by a Uniflow connection above the die plate, I'm also curious how they convert them to Dillons and Hornadys. So much potential there...such crappy execution...expecting people to buy a collator for every caliber...unreal!

BTW are those Lubed bullets in some of the pictures? If so, how do keep them from gumming up your parts? I did notice copper cased ones going into the GSI.

 

[jmorris]

GSI will sell you a feeder without the collator, the GSI collators that I have played with didn't work 100% anyway. They cost $250 IIRC but are very well built and are a billet tool head. KISS or now MR. bullet feeder will sell you just the dropper too and they are around $150 IIRC.

The old set up still used a GSI just different collator. I dip lube my bullets and don't have problems with lube build up.




The reason all of the others convert to any machine is because they just take the place of a standard die. Here is the KISS on my 1050 in the video above. The reason for the tall stack is so there is enough weight to tamp 55 grain bullets into the neck enough so they don't fall off indexing to the seating station.

 

[GW Staar]

GSI will sell you a feeder without the collator, the GSI collators that I have played with didn't work 100% anyway. They cost $250 IIRC but are very well built and are a billet tool head. KISS or now MR. bullet feeder will sell you just the dropper too and they are around $150 IIRC.

That's too pricey for me. If the tool head (I emailed GSI once to see if they'd be willing to make tool heads for the Pro 2000...they ignored me) was made such that minor included parts would change calibers, the $250 would be worth it. Same response to Mr. Bullet Feeder. Hornady has the right idea (if it turns out to work). $22 or so per feeder die isn't way more reasonable...RCBS's pistol bullet feeder is reasonable as well, since it includes the important calibers. When you add the cost of similar caliber choices, Hornady is a whole $60 less expensive than the RCBS. Yet if the Hornady dies are work better and more trouble free (minus the plastic fingers) the value spread is wider.

The old set up still used a GSI just different collator. I dip lube my bullets and don't have problems with lube build up.

Do you use GSI's lube product?


The reason all of the others convert to any machine is because they just take the place of a standard die. Here is the KISS on my 1050 in the video above. The reason for the tall stack is so there is enough weight to tamp 55 grain bullets into the neck enough so they don't fall off indexing to the seating station.

Yup! I'm aware of his tall stacks to provide "tamping" weight, but its not that elegant of a solution. I'd much prefer feeding directly to a seater in one station...it gives the reloader more options.

Have you seen RCBS's new Gold Medal Seater Dies...with the windows similar to their old Competition Dies (which weren't that good). The new dies have an "O" ring or something to keep the bullet from falling through the die and landing on the case. Then they straight-line seat them way more accurately than the old competition seaters. Seems to me a smart person could figure out how to feed bullets to one of those...then people may not be so against paying $100 or more per feeder/seater.

I noticed at "Ultimate Reloader.com" that Gavin has both of RCBS's rifle feeders to test. (I can't for the life of me figure out how he rates free products from RCBS, when he clearly is partial to Hornady Progressives if you watch all his videos! (Okay, I admit it, I'm damn jealous) But I will be interested to see videos on them.

I downloaded owners manuals of them and the parts needed to convert one to the other isn't bad at all...as long as you buy the extra feeder/seater assembly (you wouldn't want to take that apart for caliber changes.) I just don't understand why RCBS would even think of only offering the two calibers separately. I'm sure I've aggravated them with my complaints, but it is reasonable IMO to expect "change kits", as most of us don't have the room or the money to waste on 3 bullet collators on the bench. I'm going to make as much noise as I can. I just wish others would do the same, because that's what will get action.