cast 200 gr. SWC

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SSN Vet

SSN Vet

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I'm looking at the 200 gr. SWC from Missouri bullets for an inexpensive, accurate, paper punching load. Not necessarily a light "popper", as I have no problem with normal pressure 45 acp loads. So I'm assuming the 18 BHN is the way to go.

But...I also have an invite to shoot IDPA at a club that requires cast for their indoor segment, and would like to be set up to give it a whirl. I've heard that the IDPA guys prefer the 18 BHN over the 12, but I don't understand exactly why this is. Do the rules of the game require "full power" loads?

I'm mainly interested in reliable feed, accuracy and minimal leadding.

Have others found this bullet to feed reliably from 1911 platforms (steel framed... not alloy w/ barrel ramp)?

Opinions on the which way to go ... 12, 15, or 18 BHN?

Any suggestions for an accurate, non-leading load for use in a 4-1/4" barrel with W231?

Thanks in advance...
 
For standard 45 ACP loads, you definitely need the 18 BHN rated bullets. I typically use the 12's, but my powder charges have been increasing in the past year, so it's time for the 18's. If you push the 12's to fast, they will lead. Missouri Bullet very thoughtfully offers bullets tailored to the intended usage.

I have used close to 8,000 of the 200gn SWC from Missouri Bullet. I to use 231, and they feed flawlessly in my CZ and 1911's. My CZ-97 has gone 4,500 rounds with only 2 malfunctions (I let the chamber get way to dirty, and had to lightly push the slide closed on 2 occasions). This had nothing to do with the bullet or the load.

I have gotten sub 1.0" groups using MB's in a couple .45's, and their lot to lot consistency is excellent.
 
In my opinion, the 200 gr LSWC bullet is the classic load for the 45 ACP and should do just about anything you would want in a cartridge. I would opt for the hardest bullet alloy available if you intend to push your loads any faster than target/plinking loads; and especially if you wish to make "major" for IPSC shooting, and the the softer alloyed bullets will tend to lead if pushed much faster than 800 fps. I have shot thousands of these 200 gr LSWC bullets in my two Gold Cups and have yet to find anything better. They may cause some ftf if your pistol has not been ramped and polished. Good shooting!
 
Walkalong,

I respect your input, however, based on my experience, I have observed some very light leading in my 45 barrel when going over 800 fps using the 12 BHN slugs. Never any lead in the past.

This is why I am going to order the 18's on the nest go round and see what happens.
 
Since you have experienced slight leading with 12 BHN past 800 FPS, I would suggest 15 rather than 18, IMHO.

18 is overkill in .45 ACP. 19,900 PSI simply won't obturate those bullets. Good news is there are no throats to deal with etc, and as long as the bullet is sized properly, it should be OK anyway.

I used to cast wheelweights with a tad of 95/5 solder to help casting characteristics. (Haven't cast in a while, just bought em) That is anywhere from around 10 to 15 BHN, depending. (I have no testor) Never any leading from any .45 loads, including some stout ones.
 
I have a fair number of older 200-gr LSWCs on hand, sized properly (It's been so long, I forget the size)--and they are BHN 12 or so. They work fine--i.e., obdurate properly, with little leading--with up to MAX loads with #5. They can lead a bit more with 231 at the high(er) end.

IMO, BHN 18 bullets for .45ACP handguns isn't needed--keep us posted, schmeky.

Jim H.
 
Assuming a .452 barrel, 10 BHN .451 bullets would not lead at target velocities (under 800 granted) while 18 BHN .451 bullets would. Even at 850 to 900 FPS the .451 18 BHN bullet in a .452 barrel would continue to lead.

I would sincerely suggest you try the 15 BHN bullet. I do believe you would be able to shoot both target and full velocities with it with no leading. This is, of course, assuming that they are .001 over your groove diameter, which might not be .452.
 
Well I thought I read that MB would run 15 BHN bullets for you on request, but Joanne just told me on the phone that it was 12 or 18...

Care to share that 1" W231 load schmeky?

I was thinking of something between 4.5 and 5 gr.

I'll start with the 12 BHNs and charge the case to avoid leading.....

The guy running the IDPA event I'm talking to said their pretty laid back and since I'm just getting my feet wet in this, I won't sweat the "major" or "full power" catagory thing.... I'll let them tell me what the requirements are and they can put me where they will.
 
SSN Vet said:
Well I thought I read that MB would run 15 BHN bullets for you on request, but Joanne just told me on the phone that it was 12 or 18...

Care to share that 1" W231 load schmeky?

I was thinking of something between 4.5 and 5 gr.

I'll start with the 12 BHNs and charge the case to avoid leading.....

The guy running the IDPA event I'm talking to said their pretty laid back and since I'm just getting my feet wet in this, I won't sweat the "major" or "full power" catagory thing.... I'll let them tell me what the requirements are and they can put me where they will.
Click to expand...
Jo Ann's very busy this morning :)

Drop me a note and I'll be glad to run a batch of 15's for you.

Brad
 
I have shot both 18 and 24 hardness bullets with good results.

I am migrating over to 18 bullets since there is no leading and all of my barrels (including Lone Wolf) come clean with Hoppes #9.

Now for reloading issues, Brad, won't the softer alloy mix bullets pose greater challenge for those using tight flare for seating bullets? I found 18/24 hardness bullets seat better.
 
The guy running the IDPA event I'm talking to said their pretty laid back and since I'm just getting my feet wet in this, I won't sweat the "major" or "full power" catagory thing.... I'll let them tell me what the requirements are and they can put me where they will.
Click to expand...

Good grief! You're sweating a lot about nothing! :) All you have to do to make the correct power floor to compete in IDPA with that gun is surpass 825 fps with that 200 gr. bullet. These may be "full power" but there isn't anything terribly "major" about them.

I'd be surprised if you see appreciable leading with any of your choices. I've shot whatever 200 gr. SWCs were cheapest where ever I found them for years and never gotten enough leading to worry about. In fact, I often go for better than 500 rds between cleanings and never run more than 5-10 passes with the bore brush before I call the bore "good enough."

Your mileage may vary, of course, but don't stress too hard over the decision. :D

-Sam
 
SSN Vet: My SA 1911 (built nearly twenty years ago) has a Bar-Sto barrel (match chamber) in it. Because of the time it was built, the barrel was throated. I've run the following load for years; the gun can do 1+" in. groups at 50', which was really good for that time in the late Eighties.

Running those 200-gr. LSWCs with a reduced spring (Wolf variable), I consistently get about 820 fps with a 5.1 gr. charge of 231. Sort out the LOA for yours, of course, and tweak the load accordingly.

I'm not up speed on current major, etc., for IPDA.

Brad: when are those 38/357 140-gr. LTCs(?) going up on the site?

Jim H.
 
I have been using the Missouri Bullets "IDP #1" 200 grain swc brinell 18. My standard load is 4.8 grains #231 with a WLP primer. After 200-300 rounds I do get some leading. It is not enough to affect the accuracy, but I can see it when I am cleaning the barrel. I could be using the wrong bullet.

I read the technical notes on the MB website and did the math. Hodgdon's reloading data center shows a starting load of 4.4 grains of 231 @ 11,000 cup and a max load of 5.6 grains @ 16,900 cup. With a little interpolation I figure 4.8 grains would generate 12,967 cup. I don't know if the pressure rises in a perfectly linear fashion, but it is probably close enough for our purposes. 12,967/1279.8 = 10.13. looks like I should be using the "Bullseye #1".

Bob
 
I have shot thousands of 200 LSWC's (12 BHN) with 4.4-4.6gns of 231. Now I shoot around 5.0gns, with everything else the same. I have seen just a very minute trace of leading, not even enough to stop me using this charge level.

On a harder BHN, obturation is a factor, which can lead to gas cutting of the bullet, causing leading. I feel the barrel can be a factor as well. The 45 I shoot the most has a mirror bore and is probably a contributing factor in reducing lead deposits.

But as the other members have pointed out, bore size and bullet OD are critical factors. I agree that a 15 BHN is probably all you need in a 45.
 
jfh said:
SSN Vet: My SA 1911 (built nearly twenty years ago) has a Bar-Sto barrel (match chamber) in it. Because of the time it was built, the barrel was throated. I've run the following load for years; the gun can do 1+" in. groups at 50', which was really good for that time in the late Eighties.

Running those 200-gr. LSWCs with a reduced spring (Wolf variable), I consistently get about 820 fps with a 5.1 gr. charge of 231. Sort out the LOA for yours, of course, and tweak the load accordingly.

I'm not up speed on current major, etc., for IPDA.

Brad: when are those 38/357 140-gr. LTCs(?) going up on the site?

Jim H.
Click to expand...
When I get time, which is in very short supply these days unfortunately. But as I'd indicated to you earlier, just let me know how many you want and we'll get 'er done. I guess they're $28.00 per 500-count box.

We're going to put them up at the same time as the new 180 grain .358 RNFP 18 BHN bullet, as those moulds arrived yesterday and I will be running them starting in about 30 minutes from now.

Brad
 
re the 38/357 140LTCs.

I can wait until you get them online, Brad--I still have some (competitors') bullets on hand, and I don't shoot much when it's cold up here.

Jim H.
 
Good grief! You're sweating a lot about nothing!
Click to expand...

Not sweating at all.... I have very little experience shooting cast and I'm just trying to build up my knowledge base. I know absolutely zippo about action pistol game rules, but is sounds like some groups are casual and some are not.

Thanks Brad for the offer to run the 15s... I called back and asked Joanne to switch my order from 18s to 12s and I'll play around with those for now.

My biggest obsticle has now become the "Primer Nazzi" ... :(

May have to break down and pay the stinkin' hazmat fee and order Wolf primers from Wideners. All my local (and not so local) options have dried up again.

And I thought the whole shortage business was over. :confused:
 
For those who are interested, over at castboolits they have a wealth of information on BH and related velocity. Too soft and you get leading, too hard and you get leading, not to mention with the wrong lubricant you get leading!

A little reading will answere many questions.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

Have fun.
 
Almost all of the 200 gr. SWCs on the market are on the Hensley & Gibbs 68 mold and should be seated to just about 1.250."

Some folks with finicky guns play with that a bit to get best reliability, but this set-up is pretty much the definition of tried and true.

-Sam
 
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