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Cast boolit diameter

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by SSN Vet, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    I recently purchased a new mold (Lee TL358-158-SWC) to cast this boolit from 75% WWs / 25% pure Pb.....

    [​IMG]

    My boolits are measuring .359" on one axis & .360" on the other (slightly out of round) on the bottom driving band and .358" on the TL grooves.

    I will be shooting these from a 6-1/2" .357 mag revolver, which I attempted to slug tonight. But the barrel has 5 grooves, so I can't measure the dia. straight across. I played around with rotating the boolit in the caliper and also dropped the boolit into a drill index and attempted to measure the play in a 23/64" drill index (coming up with ~.356" to .357"), but can't say that's an accurate number.

    How can I read my slug, without a hole gage set?

    Do you think these boolits are safe to test fire with a modest load (3.7 gr W231) in a 38 spl case?
     
  2. USSR

    USSR Member

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    SSN Vet,

    Typically with revolvers, the cylinder throats are the more critical dimension for the proper sizing of cast bullets. You will need a pin/ball gauge to measure them properly. How will you be sizing your bullets?

    Don
     
  3. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    Yes.
     
  4. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    I was hoping to shoot them as cast...

    I size my other boolits with the Lee push throughs... Unfortunately, I don't have a lube sizer.
     
  5. billybob44

    billybob44 Member

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    :) Vet you're Good to Go.

    Vet, with Lee's Tumble Lube Bullets you are ok shooting them "as cast".
    You do need to pick up a bottle of "Lee Liquid Alox", and pan lube your bullets per Lee instructions.

    Your bullet design, with the multi "fins" are made to shoot as cast-they need not be sized/lubed with a lubersizer.

    Now, don't get me wrong--these tumble lubed loads WILL smoke!!!Bill.:)
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Yes.
    They are also safe to fire with heavy loads.

    Bullet & bore diameter is a non-issue as far as safety of loads is concerned.

    If it will fit in the chamber, the chamber throat & forcing cone in the barrel will make it the right diameter for the bore.

    Thats why they are called Forcing Cones.

    rc
     
  7. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    Great! I was hoping so, as I loaded 25 @ 3.7 gr. and 25 @ 3.4 gr. last night.....

    All of my pistol boolit molds are the TL style and I pan lube with either LLA or Rooster.

    I only cast one rifle caliber, and I pan lube those.
     
  8. Hondo 60
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    Hondo 60 Member

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    If they're safe to shoot, why bother with sizing dies?????
     
  9. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    I use the same mould/bullet.

    I do size my bullets to .358" with the push-through Lee sizer.
    I get slightly better accuracy this way.

    How accurate? I had to reshoot for qualification in NRA PPC as they changed the classification system last year. (Service and Match Gun classifications).
    I shot a 480/35x (480/48x possible) on my first run using the Lee .358TL over 3.1gr of Bullseye which correlates to the 3.4gr of #231/HP38. Firearm is a S&W Perf. Ctr "reworked" Mod 14 with a 4" heavy bbl. With above listed loads it is near 1-hole at 25yds.... Ditto a Zero or Precison Delta 158gr swaged SWC

    I believe sizeing the bullet "trues" them up so that accuracy is improved. Also, with some brass, an un-sized bullet will expand the case to the point that they may not chamber in some guns... Biggest reason to "size" the bullets before loading.
     
  10. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

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    You size to prevent leading.

    If you slug your bore, measure the groove size of it, and match it with a bullet that is just slightly larger, you decrease gas cutting. Bullet hardness, velocity, phase of the moon, and the way the wind is blowing seems to also contribute toward leading.

    Cast bullets can be fickle. But they are fun.
     
  11. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Safe? Yes. Variations of the amount of antimony in an alloys will produce different bullet diameter as they drop from the mould. Tin, not so much. This also effects bullet hardness. The pressure/ zero will change between batches. This is why we size bullets.
     
  12. USSR

    USSR Member

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    As previously stated, to help prevent leading and for increased accuracy.

    Don
     
  13. GP100man

    GP100man Member

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    Load a few & try em as cast .

    As goose said If they`ll chamber your good ,the throat of the cyl. will make em round for the bore!

    Your alloy should be in the 10-12bhn so it`s not super hard & just by the act of seating may take care of any parting lines on the boolit.
     
  14. 918v

    918v Member

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    Sizing to prevent leading???

    Umm, no. Sizing only induces leading. Sizing, by definition, reduces bullet diameter. You do not prevent leading, ever, by reducing bullet diameter.

    The purpose of sizing is to make a bullet fit a particular firearm. We use the largest size that fits to prevent leading.
     
  15. RedAlert

    RedAlert Member

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  16. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

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    If the bullet is out of round, sizing it will help prevent leading due to gas cutting around the edges. So yes, size to fit prevents leading.

    Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook Page 52 states: "It is always better to shoot a round bullet than one that might have even minor out-of-roundness." Reading further, one deduces that the reason being is that an out of round bullet doesn't completely fit the bore and can have gas cut up the sides, thus causing leading.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Cast bullets are designed to be cast slightly over the diameter needed, then lubed/sized to the correct size, which will also round them nicely since lead and lead alloys have little to no spring back. This can result is a very accurate bullet which does not lead, assuming the alloy is correct for the pressure/velocity, and is lubed properly. I have tried bullets as cast and properly sized, and in general the properly sized bullets shot better.
     
  18. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    Leading is frequently due to a mild load that fails to bump undersize bullets up to obturation. It seems to be "conventional wisdom" these days to have cast bullets 2 or even 3 thou over groove diameter but there's absolutely nothing to gain by doing that. No matter what excess diameter a bullet has it will be corrected by the time it fully enters the bore but a barrel is NOT a good, consistant sizer. Starting at or very close to groove diameter is a good thing.

    Any tiny 'out of round' hand gun bullet hardly matters to a full bore size (or larger) projectile so long as the smallest point is the same or more than the groove diameter.
     
  19. Hungry1

    Hungry1 Member

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    SSN Vet, That's the boolit I shoot.

    I used to size them with a a Lee .358 kit, I don't even bother anymore. I shoot them as they drop after a light coat of Lee Alox. I just squirt a bit and shake 'em around in a plastic bin.

    Mine are more accurate when sized, but not enough to justify the time for range blasting ammo.

    I recently got the 6 cavity mold for the same boolit. I'm very happy with it. Highly recommended!

    I do get some leading, a few minutes with a copper scrub pad around a brush cleans the bore and cylinder up nicely.

    Good Luck
     
  20. 918v

    918v Member

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    No, sizing an out of round bullet makes the uneven gap around the bullet bigger. So gas cutting increases if the bullet is undersized. The OP's bullet is oversized and there will not be any gas cutting because it will swage down in the cylinder throat.

    As far as accuracy goes, what's the difference if the bullet is sized down by a sizer die or the cylinder throat? The difference, if any, will be due to combustion, pressure, velocity, etc resulting from the smaller bullet and not due to a .001" difference in roundness.
     
  21. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Oh, good heavens, you REALLY need to spend some time on a cast bullet forum.:rolleyes:

    Don
     
  22. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Yup! Nothing like shootin lopsided bullets even tho it's only .001 and at the RPM's they spin I'm sure they'll get downrange-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Somewhere!



    Maybe!
     
  23. wgaynor

    wgaynor Member

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    I agree. The disinformation that I've seen on here in regards to cast bullets only takes away from credibility.
     
  24. 918v

    918v Member

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    You people don't understand that an out of round bullet will obturate and conform to the bore and thereby become perfectly round when it leaves the muzzle. That's why Lee TL bullets are successfully deployed as cast.
     
  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Of course it will, but will it start as straight. :confused:
     
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