casting in a fireplace?

[1858rem]

anybody else here ever use the fireplace as a "vent hood" for casting indoors?

 

[Remo-99]

probably not the best of ideas, open outdoors is a better option. imo

 

[1858rem]

its raining an i wanted to cast a few from my new molds lol

 

[nofishbob]

Interesting idea.

It would only work as a fume hood if you could get the chimney to "draw", that is start pulling air up the flue and out of the room. A fire does this in a well designed fireplace by heating a large amount of air.

I am worried that a lead melting process would not make enough warm air to reliably move air up the chimney.

Hope this helps.

Bob

 

[1858rem]

i just built a fire and am letting it burn down to coals, it will help keep the lead warm too, btw im just using an old steel pot which i normally use a blowtorch to keep hot, so i save a little fuel too

 

[Remo-99]

its raining an i wanted to cast a few from my new molds

I've seen the effects that high quanities of heavy metals in the blood system have upon people.

Put off casting until weather clears, or do casting under an outdoor shelter such as an open porch or such.

Minimum exposure is the key, so don't make a habbit of doing it in an indoor/enclosed area. That's my advice anyways 1858.

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, wait for good weather. Cast a LOT in the good weather months to hold you through the bad ones.

 

[snuffy]

I've seen the effects that high quantities of heavy metals in the blood system have upon people.

Put off casting until weather clears, or do casting under an outdoor shelter such as an open porch or such.

Minimum exposure is the key, so don't make a habit of doing it in an indoor/enclosed area. That's my advice anyways 1858.

Yeah,EXCEPT there's no fumes created at normal casting temps. Lead has to be near it's boiling point to give off lead fumes,(3180 degrees). If you just want to avoid the smoke, then an operating fireplace is an excellent place to do that. The fire can and will melt the lead, but temperature control won't be possible.

Quit believing the propaganda the greenies put out there. They're just about to get all lead banned in our world as it is, no need to help them out! Lead bullet bans are already in place in CALIFORNIA, which state is next, Oregon? OOPS, the last time I mentioned the proposed Oregon lead ban, my thread was axed!!!!!

 

[1858rem]

well i got 6-255 .452 lrnfp and 6 124 .356 rn cast and started to smell the lead considering i was in the livingroom fireplace i decided just to wait untill it clears up an besides, i got enough to at least get a little practice w/my new classic lee loader(18 bucks) i have like 400 cast already .450 200g for a cap and ball revolver but i dont know if they will work, plus i still got to get the .45lc brass, i only have it for the .38 right now


little off topic but does 50 cents/lb sound good for clean plumbers lead? i got 50lbs but i was wondering if i should finde a better price?

 

[Remo-99]

little off topic but does 50 cents/lb sound good for clean plumbers lead?

Its' your thread 1858, but 50c/lb sounds like a good price to me.

And sorry Snuffy if i was comming across as a greenie, which i deffinately ain't.
But lead is a toxic material, THAT CAN BE handled safely with some with precautions in place, like washing hands well after handling and before eating etc. and melting in a well ventilated area.
I was just suggesting a cautious approach.

 

[hso]

snuffy,

I'm a HS professional with nearly 20 years experience and I assure you that casting in the house is a bad idea without proper precautions to vent adequately and that a fireplace is not adequate. Since overexposure is a function of how much how long I doubt our young friend has done any serious harm, but make no mistake, casting shouldn't be done except in a well ventilated area.

If you're only putting yourself at risk I say "Go ahead", but not in his mom's house and not where other people might be exposed.

 

[Slamfire]

Yeah,EXCEPT there's no fumes created at normal casting temps. Lead has to be near it's boiling point to give off lead fumes,(3180 degrees).

Are you sure of this? Any time you have a liquid, you also have a vapor pressure.

Does not have to be a lot of vapor pressure to cause problems once you breathe the stuff. Any stuff for that matter.

I have looked on the web for a lead phase diagram, but I have not found one showing the vapor pressure of lead.

 

[barnetmill]

There is great danger in using a typical fire place and chimney for casting if it is raining. A heavy rain could send an errant drop of water down the chimney. Just one drop of water in your lead and the melted lead will "explode".

 

[the foot]

Anytime you have molten lead there will be fumes at some level.

The "greenies" didn't come up with the idea that lead is toxic. Lead is dangerous, we just need to handle it in a reasonable way. For me, that includes melting my lead outdoors.

 

[Albatross]

Lead is a heavy metal and all heavy metals are neurotoxins that with prolonged exposure will build up in soft tissues/bones.

How quickly it builds up to dangerous levels might be open to discussion, but just because it isn't vaporizing at 1740 C doesn't mean it cannot be inhaled.

Lead is malleable and rubs off on everything leaving trace amounts on whatever touches it. These small particles can become airborne and then breathed in.

That all said, I wouldn't melt lead in my living room, not because of its toxicity (which is definitely overstated), but because of the likelyhood of spills and messes.

/biochemistry student at a major university.

 

[snuffy]

Wow, I see I touched a nerve!

hso, whats a HS?

The smoke you see when melting lead is NOT lead vapor. It's carbon from grease and dirt in the lead, or smoke from whatever you're using to flux with.

Some say if you heat lead to 1200 degrees, you will START to get some vapor. Since it IS lead vapor, it is very heavy, so it hugs the surface of the molten lead. If the pot is deep enough so the surface of the molten lead is ½ inch below the top, the vapor will stay right there.

Particles of lead can't fly. Neither can pigs! If they somehow become airborne, they immediately fall to the ground. It's heavy stuff. If you deliberately inhale some lead dust, THEN you will have problems.

If you get some lead on your hands, either from handling it while casting or when loading lead boolits, wash thoroughly before eating. Don't eat, smoke, drink, or touch your mouth, nose or eyes while you have lead on your hands.

This borders on paranoia. Certainly respect that it can cause problems if you don't wash after handling it. Ignorance is fear until the facts are known.

I've been casting, loading and shooting lead boolits for 40+ years. Last summer I had a blood test for lead done when they drew blood for my A1-C, and cholesterol levels. It was 5.0, half of what is considered the beginning of concern,(10.0, they start worrying.)

I cast in a small UNVENTILATED spare bedroom. Sometimes it's difficult to see 10 feet across the bedroom. But I know it's not lead vapor I'm breathing! Just the smoke from the fluxing wax I use.

 

[NC-Mike]

Normal Results

Adults: Less than 20 micrograms/dL of lead in the blood

Children: Less than 10 micrograms/dL of lead in the blood
Note: dL = deciliter

What Abnormal Results Mean

Adults exposed to lead should have blood lead levels below 40 micrograms/dL. Treatment is recommended if the level exceeds 80 micrograms/dL.

In children, greater than 10 micrograms/dL of lead in the blood is abnormal. The source of lead must be identified and removed. Greater than 25 micrograms/dL of lead in a child's blood may indicate the need for treatment.

http://adam.about.com/encyclopedia/Lead-levels-blood.htm

 

[Remo-99]

Snuffy, I see the points your making completely about going overboard with precautions on safe handling.
But I think there are some "basic" safety concerns that SHOULD be followed, to avoid being exposed to high concentrations in the body.

Lead is a very useful material and I would really hate to see a total ban on it anywhere also, because of "paranoia" about it's toxicity conserns.
Just follow the "basic safety" principles, is what i'm getting at as well.

 

[1858rem]

how does using a propane torch on the surface of the lead to melt it hold up to your theory of no vapors getting blown around? i used dads Acetylene torch to melt it down a bit quicker... ummmm like 30 seconds an it was all melted lol then i used the pencil torch to keep it hot

 

[snuffy]

1858rem, that's bad ju-ju! The temp of an oxy-acetylene torch is 5800 to 6300 degrees if properly set. That is plenty of heat to instantly vaporize the surface of the lead that the flame is hitting. Yes it melts it fast, but it could create a lot of lead vapor, not a good thing. I suspect even a propane torch would do the same thing. At 3623 degrees Fahrenheit, it too could produce lead vapor. The thing is the concentrated heat and the force of the flame propelling the vapor around .

All my lead melting is done electrically, EXCEPT when I'm smelting. Then I use a propane fueled turkey fryer under a cast iron dutch oven. No direct contact with the lead. That's done outside!

 

[Remo-99]

1858-A propane torch will heat up to 1300 degrees C
Lead becomes liquid at around 330 degrees C or 620 degrees F.
It becomes a vapour or gas at around 1800 degrees C / 3200 degrees F.

Regardless of it's vapour point, there will be Pb/Lead compounds carried away in the smoke, even by melting at these lower temps.
I just think it's best to be doing it an open/outdoor area.
Whether you wish to heed these basic safety warnings or not, it's up to you personally, I was just pointing out the dangers.

 

[fireflyfather]

There is great danger in using a typical fire place and chimney for casting if it is raining. A heavy rain could send an errant drop of water down the chimney. Just one drop of water in your lead and the melted lead will "explode".

A drop of rain down the chimney will not cause an explosion. The water will vaporize on the surface, causing little or no splatter. The lead explosions that people have had over the years are the result of adding new weights or a stirring stick that contains moisture on the surface. The RAPID SUBMERSION of the water to the bottom of the pot is what causes explosions, as the water vapor tries to escape out of the bottom of a full pot of molten lead. That doesn't happen when a drop or two of rainwater hits the top of a molten pot. That said, it's still not a good idea to cast in the rain, but a single drop of water falling into the top is not a disaster. Just make sure that any cold weights you add to a molten pot are COMPLETELY DRY.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

This is a really bad idea. OP, you're basically trying to give yourself lead poisoning. You should stop before you end up in the hospital. Good ventilation means hood and vent fans with strong airflow leading to the outside, not the draft of a fireplace. Based on what I've read above, you're asking for it.

BTW, I now make my living as a Respiratory Therapist.

Seriously,

Dave

 

[J23]

I have done it casting .32 round balls for my muzzleloader, the difference is, I have a Brunco woodburner. Open the door, get a good open-draft fire going and go to town. IF you have a good chimney (no smoke out of the door when you open it...but thats another message board...) then the draft will take care of the majority of the lead fumes. It creates negative pressure in and around the door. (Suck air in door, combustion, CO2 up chimney). I dont extensively do it, but it works well if I want to throw a few 'balls.

 

[CBS220]

Regardless of whether there is significant lead in the air or not, if you do as poor a job as I do in getting the adhesive off of WWs then your house will smell pretty bad in short order