CCW application bounced?

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onebigelf

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My application for a CCW was rejected this week, because they would not accept my DD-214. The reason cited was that I had a Top Secret clearance therefore my entire file was not made available.

1. Has this happened to anyone else?
2. I thought the DD-214 was to establish basic firearms handling training. What are they doing trying to pull my military records in the first place? And what is the national archive doing releasing records to anybody other than me?
3. I had a freakin TS clearance and I can't get a CCW? ***?

The note says I can take a firearms training or hunter safety course and resubmit.
Grr.

John
 
You neglected to tell us what state you reside in. It could make a big difference.

For example, in Arizona all you have to submit is a certified copy of your fingerprints, and a form signed off by the instructor saying that you have met all of the training and marksmanship requirements. Your military records are a moot point so far as the authorities are concerned.

Arizona also issues non-resident CCL's. ;)
 
My application for a CCW was rejected this week, because they would not accept my DD-214. The reason cited was that I had a Top Secret clearance therefore my entire file was not made available.

1. Has this happened to anyone else?
2. I thought the DD-214 was to establish basic firearms handling training. What are they doing trying to pull my military records in the first place? And what is the national archive doing releasing records to anybody other than me?
3. I had a freakin TS clearance and I can't get a CCW? ***?

The note says I can take a firearms training or hunter safety course and resubmit.
Grr.

John
Click to expand...

I at first was appalled until I read your last sentence, then I think it became clear, to me, what happened. Apparantly, they were attempting to obtain information from your military service record indicating what type of handgun training you have had in the military, and the TS clearance was preventing them from doing that. The DD214 will show that you have an honorable discharge from the service which is one requirement.

Apparantly, in your state, another requirement is training in the use/safety of handguns? Not all service members will receive training and be qualified to carry a weapon. Actually, probably, the majority aren't.

If you want to use military training to satisfy their requirement, then you will need to get into your training records and pull out certificates of completion for whatever firearms training you have had. If you submit that, it might satisfy their requirement, otherwise, you're going to have to take the approved training course.

Hope this helps clear up what I think might be happening.
 
onebigelf said:
3. I had a freakin TS clearance and I can't get a CCW? ***?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the "dark side" of government regulation!

Right after 9/11 all of the General Aviation airports around DC were shut down ... for MONTHS. When they were finally allowed to reopen (and I use that term very loosely), those pilots based in the closest 3 (Hyde, Potomac and College Park) had to go through a special screening by DHS to be "vetted" and allowed to fly.

Better than 50% of the pilots at Potomac couldn't be vetted by DHS BECAUSE THE INVESTIGATORS AT DHS DIDN'T HAVE A SECURITY CLEARANCE HIGH ENOUGH TO REVIEW THEIR EMPLOYMENT RECORDS.

It took months to get that worked out, and it was only that quick 'cause these guys were screaming bloody murder to every high muckty muck they had in their Rolodex.
 
I too had a TS + clearance in the Army, 21 years, and a friend from the state police recommended I take the classes before applying. I could have used my 214 as proof of qualification, but like he said, at least I will have met the requirements like everyone else.

The license was taking 60-90 days for everybody, but mine was back in 30. I suspect that when they tried to access my military records, they saw my clearance level and went with that. All this was prior to 9-11.

I recommend that you spend the money, take the classes, and resubmit.

Good luck
 
Wierd. NavyLT...My DD-214 indicates that I have had handgun combat training besides all the other schools I have attended including the college courses I have had. And I have (or had) a Top Secret also...

But here in Missouri all they would except was the listed 5 Honorable discharges. I still had to take the CCW course...Which was not a problem and fun too.

Onebigelf...Take the dang course. It's fun and if you really can shoot you will find that you will have the best target. I shot a 200/200 for quals...
 
I'm thinking the most likely permit you applied for is a Florida permit. Is that correct? The procedure sounds quite similar, including the substitutions available for a formal class

I had a secret clearance and had no problems. I know TS is higher, but still, FL IIRC only requires that you actually be in the military, which of course would denote that you've had the firearms training the legislature mandated when they enacted the law.

It sounds kind of like some pencilneck at the PD is legislating from his cubicle. I'd call the department back and explain to them your point of view. Hopefully they won't make you ask them to stop breaking the law as well.

Again, this is all predicated on my belief that you have applied for a FL permit.

Rmeju
 
What would your clearance have to do with this? The clearance is for information you are allowed to know. Your records won't show any sensitive information. Mine don't and I had that clearance also and was involved in one major operation that I know was a secret issue. I was deployed and my wife had and still has no idea what went on. I ETSed several years ago and I still bound to keep that information to myself. My 214 has no information about it.

I am like the other guys. I would just take the class and be done with it.

Mine CCW got kicked back also. Come to find out I was in jail. :eek:. When mine got kicked back they never said why. I ended up resubmitting and it came back fine thats when I found out what happened. Paper mix up.

Could this have happened our did they say for sure that it was because of your clearance?
 
Wierd. NavyLT...My DD-214 indicates that I have had handgun combat training besides all the other schools I have attended including the college courses I have had. And I have (or had) a Top Secret also...
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I've got 214's from 1988 when I transferred from Army National Guard to Enlisted Navy and 2000 when I went from Enlisted to OCS. I thought mine only had listed time in service and awards. I'll have to go back and look at mine. So here's a question - would your standard enlisted person, let's say in the Navy, get handgun training? Typical Navy enlisted personnel usually don't get any weapon at all, and if they do, it is M-16 or shotgun, not 1911, oops I mean M9 :D
 
With holding any judgment until we know the state.

If the state mandates XXXXX course or class, and proof of the class didn't accompany the application. Well, that's what happens when the application isn't complete.

We've got no way of knowing what happened in your case.
 
OK. I'm a bit confused.

I went looking through your posts, trying to figure out where you live to help with your conundrum. Are you still in Florida, or did you just move? Or did your permit just expire?

Or are you applying for one from another state?

I noticed you made several recent references to having your CCW:
Polls are one of the places that my CCW specifically does not cover, so my gun will be in the lockbox in the truck.
Click to expand...

That's why with all that martial arts training I still have a CCW. So that I can rely on the American Martial Art. ClickClick bang!
Click to expand...


Something's really not making sense here . . .
 
With holding any judgment until we know the state.

If the state mandates XXXXX course or class, and proof of the class didn't accompany the application. Well, that's what happens when the application isn't complete.

We've got no way of knowing what happened in your case.
Click to expand...

Florida?
 
This is BS.

I can't believe ANY state would actually require your DD-214 to show you have some sort of firearm training. Florida requires either a safety class OR proof that you've served in the military - as shown by your DD-214. The fact that you've served in the military shows that you have weapons familiarization, at least equal to what you'd receive in a class lasting several hours.

Heck, I think even the Navy exceeds that :D

But I think you do need to follow-up with this. They have no need to look at your service records. Your DD-214 should suffice.
 
Yozho...They wanted to see my DD-241 as proof that I was honorably discharged from the service. That's all they wanted.

NavyLT...My DD-214 lists all of my awards and schools that I attended during my 22+ years that I was serving. The reason I had some advanced training with the .45 ACP was because my drinkin' buddy was a Gunners mate aboard the mine sweep we were on and he was incharge of making sure we were qualified with the pistols and rifles aboard the ship including the .50 used to explode mines that we cut when sweeping. He, also was friends with the range master of the local (Seattle) police training range. I had to qualify 4 times to get the medal I have (Perminant Expert). My friend wanted to see how good I realy was (I had beat his score during quals). So I ended up on the police range on weekends qualifying. Have you ever ran a pistol obstickle coarse in the rain and mud? Nothing like diving into a mud puddle and shooting at a moving target at the same time.

I highly doubt that I can do that anymore. Nor do I want to either...
 
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