CCW Condition What?

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

I was reading another thread and several terms kept coming up but no explanation was given, with the exception of one. From what I gathered, Condition Three has the magazine loaded and inside the pistol. However, no round is chambered.

If this is correct, what do the other "Condition" terms mean?

Thanks

 

[9mmepiphany]

condition 2 is the same as condition 3, except you chamber a round and then lower the hammer.

condition 1 is condition 2m but with the hammer cocked and the thumb safety applied

condition 0 (zero) is condition 1, but with the thumb safety left off

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

Ok, got it. Thanks.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Handgun "conditions" - states of readiness - were popularized in the writings of Jeff Cooper. They were really intended for the 1911 and other single-action pistols - double-action and striker-fired pistols do not really fit into the categories.

 

[RonJ]

I thought that striker fired guns can be D/A or S/A, as for example the Taurus Millenium pro and 24/7 Pro models, so wouldn't the same temminology apply.

With the taurus PT 24/7Pro DS model my understading is that you can carry S/A with a round in the chamber and manual safey on, or decock and carry first strike D/A with or without the safety engaged.

Am I wrong on this?

 

[Bill_Rights]

Yeh, the 1911 paradigm reigns in the older instructional literature. As noted, it does not apply to striker-fired, Glock-style and other internal-hammer types. And again there is the external-hammer/no-safety/yes-decocker DA/SA type. What name do we use for this configuration? Mine is an an FNP, but I've seen many others with same config. I carry it with a round chambered but hammer down. What "condition" is this? "1"? Carrying with hammer cocked is a no-no because there is no safety of any kind, other than the uncocked hammer (like a revolver). With minimal practice I've learned to cock the hammer during draw while trigger finger is still outside trigger guard. It helps to have a holster in which the preferred direction of release is backward, so that the force of cocking assists in breaking the pistol out of the holster's retention force. In my draw, "condition 0" is attained long before the gun gets fully gripped and rough-aimed downrange - easing the trigger finger into the guard is the removal of the final "safety". Condition 0+ ?

My instructor really drilled iinto me the importance of keeping the trigger finger outside of the guard until committed to firing, in between (non-immediate) shots and especially while re-holstering....

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Glocks and other pistols with partially cocked strikers are neither Condition One (because they are neither cocked nor have hammers) nor Two, because they are not uncocked) either. Condition One and a Half?

Double-action pistols are not really Two, either, because you don't manually cock the hammer before firing, as you would have to on the 1911. Let's call these Condition Two and a Half.

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

Alright. So by what some have stated, the High Power would also fit into this mold since it is SA, yes?

 

[EMC45]

I carry my 1911A1 and Browning Hi Power cocked and locked!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Double-action pistols are not really Two, either, because you don't manually cock the hammer before firing

i beg to differ, DA/SA pistols should always be carried in Condition 2...even Cooper said so...and you do manually cock the hammer, you just do it with the trigger...as you would with a wheelgun

DAO pistols are also always carried in Condition 2. just because they don't have the option of Condition 1 doesn't invalidate the existence of Condition 2.

i've always felt that the confusion concerning striker fired guns is Glock's fault. they wanted LE contracts that mandated DAO and they wanted to compete in IDPA in SSP...so they convinced the ATF and IDPA that the partially cocked striker was "just like" an uncocked hammer. my personal feeling is that if you don't have 2nd strike capability, you don't have a DAO gun. surely the H&K P-7, which competes in ESP as a SA pistol, is more DAO than the Glock

 

[atomd]

i beg to differ, DA/SA pistols should always be carried in Condition 2...even Cooper said so...and you do manually cock the hammer, you just do it with the trigger...as you would with a wheelgun

So what exactly is the problem with carrying say...a CZ75B cocked and locked? I can see not carrying say...a sig or other pistol without a thumb safety and not decocking it. That would be asking for trouble. I wouldn't carry a CZ75 completely decocked because the DA trigger pull is super long and really heavy. At 1/2 cock it's decent though.

 

[9mmepiphany]

So what exactly is the problem with carrying say...a CZ75B cocked and locked?

are you asking me?

i don't think there's anything wrong with carrying a CZ75 C&L'ed

but then i don't think the CZ has an especially long or heavy DA trigger stroke either...at least the one's i've handled haven't. i wouldn't carry it on the half-cock notch...it wasn't designed for that

 

[benderx4]

Many variants of HKs can also be carried safely in Condition 1.

 

[atomd]

but then i don't think the CZ has an especially long or heavy DA trigger stroke either...at least the one's i've handled haven't. i wouldn't carry it on the half-cock notch...it wasn't designed for that

The one I have and the ones I've handled I would consider pretty darn long. I would consider it longer and a good amount heavier than most of the popular autoloaders out there anyways. I guess there's some other pretty long pulls out there but they are usually much lighter (like the sig and HK DAO/LEM/Whatever trigger pulls).

The CZ models with the decocker only decock to the half cock and that's how they were designed to be carried. The rest of the design is very similar to the regular 75b. If it's safe on those, it's safe on the b too.

If you have a model b there is a firing pin block so it's perfectly safe to carry on half cock. Even if it slipped from 1/2 cock it wouldn't fire unless the trigger is held all the way back.

Of course, I'm only talking about the 75B. If you have a 75 there is no firing pin block. The 1/2 cock was only there as a safety measure and not a way to be carried. On the model B I would consider it more of a way to be carried and not just a safety feature anymore. Personally I would rather have mine cocked and locked. My second choice would definitely be 1/2 cock though.

Anyways, sorry to take this conversation off topic a bit. I guess it's at least somewhat related though.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The one I have and the ones I've handled I would consider pretty darn long. I would consider it longer and a good amount heavier than most of the popular autoloaders out there anyways. I guess there's some other pretty long pulls out there but they are usually much lighter (like the sig and HK DAO/LEM/Whatever trigger pulls).

i think the longest DA stroke on an auto loader i've tried has been the Walther P99, the lightest has been a tuned DAK. i would think most auto loaders have a stroke about the same lenght as a normal wheelgun.

i defer to you on the CZ 75b...my experience has mostly been with the original 75. it's not my favorite design due to how the barrel is supported

 

[chris in va]

Or...you could get a Kahr and not mess with all this 'condition' stuff.

 

[Hostile Amish]

Condition 0, Glock with round in chamber, striker partially cocked.