Ok , so for my fifth time shooting IPDA I decided to shoot my EDC gun. The previous two times I shot my new commander size 1911 and the first two times my H&K p-30. I was reasonably pleased with the results ( speed & accuracy ) but when I ran my EDC gun, not so much . I carry a Kahr PM 9. I know the answer to the problem is practis,practice,practice,practice but two mag changes and some 20 plus yard shots didn't make for a good score . The name of the game is defencive pistol, so I should be using what I carry for defence, right? . Your thoughts please.
CCW gun accuracy
- Thread starter cemjr
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ny32182
Member
IDPA is one of the primary reasons I've never gone smaller than my G19 for a carry gun.
If you can't shoot it well, it isn't likely going to do you much good as a carry gun... if I were forced to switch sizes for carry, I would likely only go bigger to a full size G17 frame.
As far as shooting in competition what you actually carry, not many do, but some do and if your primary goal in shooting IDPA is to improve your handling skills with your actual carry gear, then yes you should. Most people don't do this long term if they stick with the sport. I shot with my carry gun for four years, and know of nobody else who has done that for even close to that amount of time, but I'm sure they are out there.
If you can't shoot it well, it isn't likely going to do you much good as a carry gun... if I were forced to switch sizes for carry, I would likely only go bigger to a full size G17 frame.
As far as shooting in competition what you actually carry, not many do, but some do and if your primary goal in shooting IDPA is to improve your handling skills with your actual carry gear, then yes you should. Most people don't do this long term if they stick with the sport. I shot with my carry gun for four years, and know of nobody else who has done that for even close to that amount of time, but I'm sure they are out there.
Purgatory
Member
I believe the Kahr PM9 is slightly smaller than the Glock 19, but I feel my point still applies.
I used my G19 for IDPA for the first two months and became quite proficient with it for all but the farthest targets, 20 yards+.
I'm not sure you'll ever consistently overcome that with a CC-size handgun, but it really comes down to what your priorities are.
I am very thankful that I got some semi-real-world experience and training with my carry piece, but I have since chosen to acquire a more competition-friendly model to handle the longer shots.
I used my G19 for IDPA for the first two months and became quite proficient with it for all but the farthest targets, 20 yards+.
I'm not sure you'll ever consistently overcome that with a CC-size handgun, but it really comes down to what your priorities are.
I am very thankful that I got some semi-real-world experience and training with my carry piece, but I have since chosen to acquire a more competition-friendly model to handle the longer shots.
Sauer Grapes
Member
I shoot my primary carry gun in uspsa. I think it's been a great way to become "one with the gun". I've become quite good with it. I never carry extra mags when I carry, but knowing I can reload fast is icing on the cake.
I don't expect to win anything, but knowing I can handle my gun with speed and accuracy gives me some piece of mind.
Ya know, you'll be hard pressed to worry about 20yd. shots in a SD situation.
I don't expect to win anything, but knowing I can handle my gun with speed and accuracy gives me some piece of mind.
Ya know, you'll be hard pressed to worry about 20yd. shots in a SD situation.
One of the problems with running a gun like the Kahr (DAO) in IDPA is that most folks try to run the trigger like a DA/SA auto or shoot like they are standing on a line.
The Kahr needs to be run like a revolver with the trigger in constant motion when placing repeat rounds on a target.
At our last IDPA match, a future client was on the same squad and was running a Kahr PM9...he is usually a 1911 GM shooter. I gave him some pointers and by the end of the match (8 stages) he was actually placing good hits at a good cadence on targets...he still had the extra reloads, but a match isn't the place to teach mag changes.
If you are using the correct technique, distance isn't an issue...well, maybe when you get out close to 50 yards...anymore than targets partially covered by no-shoots
The Kahr needs to be run like a revolver with the trigger in constant motion when placing repeat rounds on a target.
At our last IDPA match, a future client was on the same squad and was running a Kahr PM9...he is usually a 1911 GM shooter. I gave him some pointers and by the end of the match (8 stages) he was actually placing good hits at a good cadence on targets...he still had the extra reloads, but a match isn't the place to teach mag changes.
If you are using the correct technique, distance isn't an issue...well, maybe when you get out close to 50 yards...anymore than targets partially covered by no-shoots
"The Kahr needs to be run like a revolver with the trigger in constant motion when placing repeat rounds on a target."
I don't own a revolver, please explain this technique. I think I get it, when I'm just punching paper at home ( slow fire ) I "stage" the trigger.
I don't own a revolver, please explain this technique. I think I get it, when I'm just punching paper at home ( slow fire ) I "stage" the trigger.
Sure...no staging when shoot accurately at speed. One continuous motion to the rear and forward at the same speed.
1. Put your sights on the target
2. Squeeze the trigger straight to the rear
3. As the gun rises in recoil, release the trigger to reset
4. Start the Squeeze to the rear again as you bring the gun down
5. Have the sights on target as the trigger breaks the shot
If you wait until your sights are back on the target before starting your squeeze, you've lost. If you still have trigger travel left when your sights come back on target, you're behind the curve
1. Put your sights on the target
2. Squeeze the trigger straight to the rear
3. As the gun rises in recoil, release the trigger to reset
4. Start the Squeeze to the rear again as you bring the gun down
5. Have the sights on target as the trigger breaks the shot
If you wait until your sights are back on the target before starting your squeeze, you've lost. If you still have trigger travel left when your sights come back on target, you're behind the curve
Rail Driver
Member
9mm, is that the same as, or similar to snap shooting?
Nope, the exact opposite
As I understand the term, snap shooting is snapping the trigger as you see the sights on target...like how you would shoot a shotgun, but without the follow through...that usually leads to shots jerked off target
Running a revolver accurately and quickly is keeping the trigger motion and driving the sights to meet the letoff. You aren't chasing the sights with your trigger pull, you're keeping up with the trigger pull with your sights
It is a competition technique which has real world applications...because you can stop the shot anytime you want by just stopping your finger
It's tougher to shoot IDPA well with a revolver than an automatic, which is why there are so few shooters in the SSR or ESR classifications in matches lately. There is one ESR shooter here, though, that still smokes most of the folks with SSP guns, shooting a S&W .357 loaded with moon clips. He can reload his revolver faster than I can slap in a new magazine.
That depends on why you are there. If you're trying to win the match then, despite the best efforts of the rule writers, your EDC is probably not the right tool. OTOH if you're trying to improve your skills and confidence with your SD weapon then use your EDC and don't worry about how it affects your score.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Bah, I don't much care about my score. There are a couple guys I know I should fall in with at the end of the day. And I usually do.
Just start off committing a couple deliberate procedurals. Shoot a No Shoot here and there, and get past the urge to compare your score to everyone else's.
If you're seeing what you expected to see in regards to your own times and accuracy, be happy with that. I am. I don't play the game to beat anyone else. I go out to have a good time, enjoy the fellowship of friends, and challenge me against myself.
I get lots of procedurals because some days I just decide I'm going to shoot the stage the way I want. Compared to the rest of the pack my times are slow. And I practice hitting a higher scoring zone than on the IDPA target - the Cardiac Triangle. I'm not changing for the game. But I'll use the game for my benefit.
Just start off committing a couple deliberate procedurals. Shoot a No Shoot here and there, and get past the urge to compare your score to everyone else's.
If you're seeing what you expected to see in regards to your own times and accuracy, be happy with that. I am. I don't play the game to beat anyone else. I go out to have a good time, enjoy the fellowship of friends, and challenge me against myself.
I get lots of procedurals because some days I just decide I'm going to shoot the stage the way I want. Compared to the rest of the pack my times are slow. And I practice hitting a higher scoring zone than on the IDPA target - the Cardiac Triangle. I'm not changing for the game. But I'll use the game for my benefit.
1stmarine
Member
You got it... practice practice practice.
Pistol fine tuned accuracy is not that critical. Consistency and overall placement it is.
Try this... Put the palm of you hand in your chest right over the heart.
That is the kill zone along with the head. Then put a target with that same
area at 8, 10 and 15 yards progressively.
At every range for many sessions and using a stop clock empty the magazine and try to place all shots inside that group area consistently with a 90% score and as fast as possible. if you can run 10 shots in around 2 seconds this is a great score and then move to the next range.
Fine accuracy is not as important as getting them all in. You will find this exercise fun and practical and will get you familiar with the gun's feedback in your hands. On top test the consistency and reliability ammo-pistol-shooter trio and the whole muscle memory thing.
This is not a substitue for IDPA/tactical training that should be done every week. Shoot with both hands and then practice with single limb including the weak hand if the other is wounded.
Train with the ammo you carry once in while to make sure is flawless.
Almost any decent pistol is not a factor in any of this. Mostly reliability and acceptable ergonomics is what is needed.
The rest is pure repetition.
Also make sure you barrel is not bent! lol!
Shoot often, be safe.
Pistol fine tuned accuracy is not that critical. Consistency and overall placement it is.
Try this... Put the palm of you hand in your chest right over the heart.
That is the kill zone along with the head. Then put a target with that same
area at 8, 10 and 15 yards progressively.
At every range for many sessions and using a stop clock empty the magazine and try to place all shots inside that group area consistently with a 90% score and as fast as possible. if you can run 10 shots in around 2 seconds this is a great score and then move to the next range.
Fine accuracy is not as important as getting them all in. You will find this exercise fun and practical and will get you familiar with the gun's feedback in your hands. On top test the consistency and reliability ammo-pistol-shooter trio and the whole muscle memory thing.
This is not a substitue for IDPA/tactical training that should be done every week. Shoot with both hands and then practice with single limb including the weak hand if the other is wounded.
Train with the ammo you carry once in while to make sure is flawless.
Almost any decent pistol is not a factor in any of this. Mostly reliability and acceptable ergonomics is what is needed.
The rest is pure repetition.
Also make sure you barrel is not bent! lol!
Shoot often, be safe.
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