CCW Holder Kills Patient After Doctor Stabbed

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atomd

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Yet another case where a concealed carry permit holder comes to the rescue (and those are few and far between in Mass). Word on the street says he entered the room while the guy was still on top of her, stabbing her. He then shot the psychopath 3 times. 2 shots to the body and 1 to the head, stopping him.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/21466668/detail.html

BOSTON -- An off-duty security guard who shot and killed a knife-wielding patient who attacked his Massachusetts General Hospital psychiatrist Tuesday acted in self defense, according to Suffolk District Attorney Daniel Conley.

Jay Carciero, 37, was shot and killed by off-duty security guard Paul M. Langone, 33, after Carciero stabbed Dr. Astrid Desrosiers during a therapy session at a clinic for bipolar treatment and research.

"We had a civilian shooter, using a licensed firearm in apparent self defense and the defense of another," Conley said.

The doctor was stabbed repeatedly with a knife before Langone burst in, ordered her assailant to drop the knife and then shot and killed him inside the Boston office.

"The evidence at the scene, Mr. Langone's statements to the police and accounts of multiple witnesses all indicate that Mr. Langone acted lawfully when he discharged his firearm. There is strong evidence that he saved the life of Dr. Desrosiers and perhaps several other people," Conley said.

Conley said Langone was licensed to carry a weapon, and that he "identified himself as the shooter and acknowledged that he had a firearm."

"He has not been charged with any offense at this time," Conley said.

Prosecutors had said Wednesday that they were treating the case as a death investigation.

[Police say Jay Carciero stabbed a doctor before being shot and killed.]
Police say Jay Carciero stabbed a doctor before being shot and killed. More
Langone's actions were described as "heroic" by Boston Police Department Commissioner Ed Davis. His father, Paul F. Langone, said his son is part of the Boston Special Police force.

Boston police said many guards in the city are licensed as "special officers," which means they "meet the criteria to work for a security firm in the city and carry a firearm."

"We were hoping to have a complete final decision, but I understand the district attorney has to do a thorough investigation, and we welcome that as a family," Paul F. Langone said.

He said that he his son tried to help Carciero and the doctor after he fired his weapon.

"We want this to be thoroughly decided. I am absolutely convinced without a doubt that he will be cleared," he said.

Paul F. Langone said he prays for the Carciero family and for the doctor's recovery.

"I am very proud of my son. It is impossible for a father to be more proud of a son than I am," he said.

Langone said his son moved quickly, using his own sweatshirt to bind Desrosiers' wounds to staunch the bleeding. He said it was a coincidence that his son and the suspect lived only blocks from each other in Reading, Mass., and he's certain the two had never met.

"(Investigators) could find no connection of any kind prior to the event," Conley said.

Carciero's family released a statement Thursday, saying he was a gentle and caring person and a devoted father to his four children. His family said the incident "remains unexplained to us."

Desrosiers, 49, described as a "caring and dedicated professional," in an MGH statement, was listed in stable condition after she was stabbed at the hospital's Bipolar Clinic and Research Program.

[50 Staniford Street shooting]
50 Staniford Street shooting More
Carciero's family was said to be overcome with shock and grief. Friends remembered Carciero, a Stoneham High School graduate, as a popular, clean-cut football player whose mother was a middle school Spanish teacher.

"Nice middle-American family. He's got four kids who are very much in grief right now. They were screaming when they heard the news. It's a shock to all of us," said the Carcieros' attorney Jim Perullo.

The attack on Desrosiers is the latest in a string of violent incidents at an MGH facility. Last week, a repeat sex offender was accused of assaulting a female employee inside a bathroom at Massachusetts General Hospital. During a hearing Tuesday, the suspect, David Flavell, was ordered to undergo a mental competency evaluation.

In 2003, a cardiologist was killed in a Massachusetts General Hospital lab by a co-worker who then killed herself. The woman, Colleen Mitchell, shot Dr. Brian McGovern several times in a small office inside the lab.

At the time, officials said Mitchell was suffering from depression. McGovern, a native of Ireland, had worked at MGH for more than 20 years.
 
That's all well and good, but the article says he was a "special officer" which certainly does nothing to help CCW
 
This story will do nothing to help promote concealed carry? Can you elaborate?

To me, this sounds like precisely the reason for allowing CCW. (I shudder to think how many Boston hospitals I've been in recently, due to some family illnesses).

The fact that the shooter was an off-duty security guard seems neither here nor there. If a regular citizen had been in a similar situation, I would hope they would have done the same thing.
 
But how many regular citizens get CCW permits in that state? Isn't Mass. a notorious no-no state?
 
I am glad somebody was there to help save the doctor. I could care less about his occupation, family LE history, or where he lived. The important thing is he did a brave thing to save a another person. I do feel for the deceased's children. It is difficult to lose a family member. However, the man sounds like he had some mental issues and it is probably safer for them not to be around an individual in that state of mind.
 
To me, this sounds like precisely the reason for allowing CCW.

Right. To all of us, it screams loud and clear why Mass should become a shall issue state. But to the anti crowd, this might be seen as, "Why issue permits to private citizens when an officer handled this just fine. Leave the armed protection to the cops."

Now, we all know that to be rubbish, but they swallow that junk everyday.
 
MA allows local authorities to issue permits so it ranges from near shall-issue to close to no-issue.
 
Yes, things are tightly controlled in MA with respect to magazine capacity, as well as it being a "may issue" state. Some communities are better than others in actually issuing permits.

But, to respond to CoRoMo, that claim would seem to boil down to, "See, we never have to worry. An off-duty cop will surely be around when I need one." I guess I'm just not that worried about that argument being very effective at convincing anyone that non-LE should not be allowed to carry.

I suspect that off duty LE professionals constitute a tiny fraction of the population, and to count on one being around when you need one would be irrational. But, increasing the availability to CCW permits would add other responsible citizens to the armed population, putting more "sheepdogs" out there to prevent incidents like this.
 
I obviously agree. The "reasoning" behind every may-issue position is based in feelings, rather than logic. Had this incident involved a true private citizen, absent from being an off-duty security gaurd , I'd hope the right people in Mass could/would use it to foster change. As is, I'm doubtful that it can.
 
Right. To all of us, it screams loud and clear why Mass should become a shall issue state. But to the anti crowd, this might be seen as, "Why issue permits to private citizens when an officer handled this just fine. Leave the armed protection to the cops."

Now, we all know that to be rubbish, but they swallow that junk everyday.

That is exactly what I was trying to say. Nowhere in the article is the phrase "concealed weapons permit" mentioned. I do, however count 7 uses of the phrases "licensed," "security guard," and "special officer," along with the term "Boston Special Police Force."

If you were not a gun person and read this article, what would your take on this be? Would citizens with CCW even enter your mind?
 
I would hope so. It obviously does for me. I keep coming back to thinking, "thank god that guy had a gun." His licenses and training are great, but not the key for me. This is made fairly stark for me because I probably visited that hospital ten times over the course of a month this summer. It's giving me a creepy, it could have been me feeling. Silly, but still close to home. To me, the point is that he was armed. Score one for the good guys.
 
I have a good friend who is a prominent psychiatrist. He's been at the "mind doctoring" business for a long time. He has a CCW (shall issue State), and while at his office, keeps his handgun on a special hook beneath his desk drawer for immediate access.

He told me that there are some "really crazy" people out there who come to see psychiatrists.

L.W.
 
If the man in MA had not been a security guard, he would be looking at a life sentence. MA does not like ordinary citizens (i.e., persons not members of the Kennedy Nobility) having guns.

Jim
 
That is exactly what I was trying to say. Nowhere in the article is the phrase "concealed weapons permit" mentioned. I do, however count 7 uses of the phrases "licensed," "security guard," and "special officer," along with the term "Boston Special Police Force."

If you were not a gun person and read this article, what would your take on this be? Would citizens with CCW even enter your mind?

My first thoughts, if I were a non-gun person, would be who does this guy know that he can carry a firearm and is on the Boston Special Police Force? I might even Google the term and come up with this link: http://wbztv.com/local/special.police.officer.2.1275897.html

Extract from the link:

He's a licensed security guard hired by private companies, who underwent special training under the supervision of the Boston Police Department.

Special officers in the city of Boston are issued a license and badge, but they are not employed by the city. Special officers have the power to arrest people, and can be licensed to carry a firearm on duty.


So, in most jurisdictions, the usual term would be "armed security guard" or similar. The primary difference in terms is the result of the training/licensing agency, Boston PD. In this case, the question becomes since the shooter responded as a regular citizen (or "off-duty Boston Special Police Officer") how is the carrying of firearms authorized and in exactly what circumstances? I could then read the .pdf document on the Boston PD Rule 400 on Special Police: http://www.cityofboston.gov/police/pdfs/rule400.pdf

While reading that document, I could find out that carrying a firearm as a Boston Special Police officer is authorized in the course of that employment or contract for security services. Therefore, there is no such thing as a legally-armed, off-duty Boston Special Police officer because the authority to be armed coincides with the need to be armed in the execution of duties. Upon going "off-duty", the officer is no longer authorized to be armed.
 
Some of you guys are tough. Sheesh! Ok, first off all...let me clarify. The shooter was a SECURITY GUARD. In Mass, a regular Joe has a very difficult time getting a carry permit depending on the town he lives in. If you are required to carry a firearm for your job, It is much easier than if you just want one to protect your own life (God forbid we do that :banghead:). That doesn't mean that you are some special tactical swat commando team operator. If you work for an armored car company, the subway system or even you do night security work in some private warehouse somewhere, you have an easier time getting a permit. This guy WAS NOT A COP. He was carrying while he wasn't working....he was carrying a firearm as a regular old joe with the same kind of carry permit we would have at the time of this incident. He wasn't "special police".

I posted this to show that it's amazing with the small number of permits issued in MA, someone with one was actually in the right place at the right time. If there were more people in Mass with permits, more crimes like this would have a better chance of being prevented.

Now, as far as the news article mentioning him being a security guard and using all that terminology, yes....that's the typical Boston media trying to separate us serfs from people who are actually important enough to carry guns. That comes with the territory. It still doesn't change the fact that a non-police officer in MA with a concealed weapons permit and his firearm saved a doctor's life in a pretty well publicized case. I think that promotes concealed carry in a positive light and shows that good things can come of it....even though some of the reporting might try to mask that.
 
Oh I should also mention, the terminology "special officer", is just a name given to trained security guards who are authorized to carry firearms. That is all. He was trained by police and given a certificate...and I believe this guy wants to be a cop...and completed the training at the academy too. He's still not a cop though.
 
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I am grateful that the doctors life was saved. I dont think that this incident will do any favors for furthering the cause of CCW. The hardline media will label it as a 'gun crime' because the raw facts are that someone lost thier life because of a firearm.

I praise the actions of Mr. Langone, I just fail to see how this incdent could be used to portray CCW in a positive way. Hes an armed security guard reacting out of instinct placed by training, not a private citizen.
 
He is being called a hero in almost every news story I've read so far. It might not further the cause of CCW with everyone, but it will with some I'm sure.
 
RONDOG - " But the REALLY crazy people DON'T go see psychiatrists! "

Perhaps not... but as my friend the psychiatrist would say, "The ones I see are crazy enough!"

L.W.
 
He is being called a hero in almost every news story I've read so far. It might not further the cause of CCW with everyone, but it will with some I'm sure.

Honestly, I see it as more of a case of the press painting him to be one of "the only ones professional enough" to carry a gun amongst us peons. Otherwise, they would call him a licensed concealed weapons holder, not an off duty special police officer.
 
But the REALLY crazy people DON'T go see psychiatrists!

From my experience, that is a true statement. Especially the ones that get 'experimented' on by psychiatrists like guinea pigs, only to screw them up even more than they were.

"Here, let's try this med and let me know how you feel in a month. And here let me write you a scrip for 2,000 mood stabilizers...but if you feel down, don't be tempted to take all at once!" etc. Ugh.
 
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