CCW holders. Would you protect a stranger...

[Rtlan]

What Happened:
I am a 38 year old gainfully employed information technology professional and IT consultant with over 12 years of experience. I've been married to the same wonderful woman for 15 years and have 3 sons. Prior to the incident described here I had no criminal record and had never even been arrested before.

On Sunday, November 5, 2006, I went to a nearby venue to watch a few bands play and relax after having worked about 80 hours that week authoring several technical white papers and performing network engineering tasks as part of my position as a senior consultant with a local technology company.

About an hour or two after I arrived I witnessed a one-sided fight unfold between two people I didn’t know. The attacker appeared to punch the victim with, in retrospect, a strange downward striking punch to the neck/shoulder area. The victim grabbed his assailant and they spun through the crowd before both of them fell to the floor.

At this point nobody stopped the struggle between the two so I rushed over and started to try and separate them while they were still on the concrete floor. While I was attempting to pull the victim off of the attacker the attacker slipped out from underneath his victim and fled through the crowd. Meanwhile, I continued to try and help the victim up but I couldn’t get a firm hold of him, and he was not responding.

Just as I noticed a significant amount of blood underneath the victim I was suddenly grabbed from behind and dragged backwards through the crowd towards the front door by security while I was being punched by several people. I was then pushed out of the front door and told to leave, nobody else followed me out at this point and the door was shut in front of me, even as I tried to tell them what happened.

I decided to just call it a night so I started to walk towards my home, which wasn’t too far away. A few seconds after I started walking a friend of mine came out and asked if I was alright. I told him I was fine, but as we walked about half way to the first intersection away from the venue we heard shouts coming from behind us and turned to see several people rush out the door.

People were pouring out of the doors and as they gathered on the street one person pointed at us and shouted “Get him!” The person who shouted grabbed the wooden placard in front of the door and raised it above his head as he started to run towards us with the rest of the large crowd following him. My friend yelled at me to run but I was already winded from being dragged out of the venue and punched several times,so I told him to get out of there and turned to face the rushing mob of people.

CCW holders, place yourself in the above situation. Would you protect a stranger you knew to be innocent from a mob of people?
No? What if it was your friend/loved one?
Yes? You are now the target as well.

How many rounds are at you carrying?

How do you handle this situation?

As a side note. I have played the part of good Samaritan before but have always come out on top of the situation (unarmed 6'7" man with an intimidating handlebar mustache). After reading the above account I have gained some reservations about fulfilling that role but find myself in quandary as to what to do as an armed citizen.

 

[General Geoff]

An angry mob like that will invariably disperse and/or turn tail the moment you draw a pistol with intent to use it. And if for some reason they didn't see your pistol, the first shot will shatter their mob mentality to pieces. Focus on the ones with weapons. Drop the most immediate threats. Once the mob begins to flee, reholster and call the police.


As for getting involved in the first place, I probably wouldn't. I'd call the police and get the hell out of there.

 

[j-easy]

wow that's really sad, click the link and read the full article

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I read the full story, and it's worth reading. My goodness. Was this guy able to sue?

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I always have a flashlight on me. I'd shine the light on the fight/stabbing in progress to draw others' attention to it before I even thought of separating the fight. It'd be my worst nightmare to be wrongfully accused, and the corruption described in the link sickens me. He's lucky to be alive for doing a good deed.

 

[SaxonPig]

Trust me, you only have to shoot one of them. People who form mobs are brainless cowards and will not have the guts to stand up to someone who can effectively defend himself.

I've been training in Shotokan karate since 1973 and amongst experienced martial artists it's a well known fact that 99% of the time when facing multiple opponents you don't have to fight them all if you... er... "Mess up" the first one really badly.

Facing an angry mob? Just pick the guy with the biggest mouth and shoot him. The rest will run.

 

[jhco]

I would not use my ccw to help a stranger.
I would use it to help a friend or family member.
In either situation I would call the police first if possible/if time allowed.

 

[dom1104]

"unarmed 6'7" man with an intimidating handlebar mustache"


hah. Sorry but this is hilarious.

I must have missed being intimidated by lip hair.

"Quick honey, lock the car door, that guy has a mustache!"

lol........

 

[Pistol Toter]

I agree with jhco.

If it ain't my fight; I ain't gitten involved. Finding yourself in someone elses problem gets you in jail and the other person walks away to live another day and forgetting you and / or the day you go to trial. "CCW holders. Would you protect a stranger..." Nope, not me.

 

[Aaron12]

If any of you reading this didn't read the whole story, i suggest you read it, its a fantastic read.

 

[jackstinson]

I didn't get my CHL to play policeman.

 

[TexasRifleman]

CCW holders, place yourself in the above situation. Would you protect a stranger you knew to be innocent from a mob of people?
No? What if it was your friend/loved one?
Yes? You are now the target as well.

The fundamental problem with this whole thing is that the story you reference has no indication of who was innocent. The guy in this story may have come to the aid of a gang member for all he knew. He says himself he had no idea who the guys were, just saw them fighting and decided to get in the middle of it.

About an hour or two after I arrived I witnessed a one-sided fight unfold between two people I didn’t know

What if one had been a cop? He didn't know.

Your question, would you help if you KNEW they were innocent, cannot be applied to the story here since the guy clearly didn't know that.

It's a perfectly fair question on its own but you can't combine it with this story here. 2 completely different situations.

 

[Carl]

Wow, this story sounds more like something that would happen in Soviet Russia, not in the US.

 

[CoRoMo]

I read the linked story, but I can't believe it.

No offense, but some of the claims in the story like the one about paramedics being ordered, by police, to cease in rendering aid to a person with those type of injuries, just doesn't smell right to me.

But anyway, I can't tell you what I will do when some event in the future takes place. I can tell you that I only plan/want to protect my family, friends, and self; not strangers who find themselves involved in a violent conflict.

How many rounds are at you carrying?

What does that matter?

 

[steveracer]

I look at it like this: Would I stop a man beating on a woman? Yep. Stop a man beating on a child? Yep. Stop a person preying on the elderly or disabled? Yep.
If I can help, I feel I must. I will do what it takes to satisfy my conscience. I could not live with myself if I walked away, and someone innocent suffered from my lack of give-a-crap.

 

[Pistol Toter]

I will do what it takes to satisfy my conscience. I could not live with myself if I walked away, and someone innocent suffered from my lack of give-a-crap.

Suppose, you see a man beating a woman and envolve yourself. You shoot and kill the man. When you come to trial you find out that the man and woman were husband and wife. OMG! She gets on the stand all cryy and blurry eyed over the death of her darling little hubby; and how that murdurious broot (YOU) killed her loving, true, all providing, etc, etc... Do I need to continue? NO! I don't think so. You got more money and hide to lose than I do. I envy you.:banghead:

 

[c919]

I hate to sound callous, but seriously, this is the exact worst case scenario that every book/article regarding CCW and defending stranger warns you about.

If anyone is CCing they should have, at bare minimum, read In the Gravest Extreme or something similar, and they should know that this is not all that unlikely in a situation of this sort.

Now just imagine how much worse this would have been if he had been CCing and actually killed someone.

I know I sure as hell dont want my face on the front page under a headline reading "Bystander Slays in Defense of Nazi Skinhead".......

SCREW THAT!

 

[CoRoMo]

I remember back when I got my carry permit, the class was give scads of these types of scenarios to think on. Far too many in the class were all too willing to intervene. After a bit of discussion, the instructors would add a little more to the scenario such as, one of the individuals is an undercover cop and you arrived four seconds after the drug sting went south, or they are husband and wife, etc.

If your conscience compels you to action, call 911, keep a safe distance, and give a detailed account of what's happening with precise descriptions of the individuals.

 

[bigalexe]

Disregarding whether im carrying a gun or not (im not a CCW holder) i would protect and individual if needed. I am just an old boy scout in some ways and "To help other people at all times" is one thing that sticks with me, even sometimes a little too much.

I think the last thing i would do is draw a pistol to intervene in a fistfight though. The pistol would only come out if A.) the mob turned on me or B.) Someone else drew first.

 

[kingpin008]

I didn't get my CHL to play policeman.

This.

Unless it involves me and mine, it's not my business to stick my nose into. I would keep my distance and be a good observer, and call the cops ASAP. Other than that, it's not my problem.

 

[paintballdude902]

depends if it looks like he will end up with a black eye and a bloody nose im not in it but i will call the cops

if i see them hitting the person with pipes and other objects that may lead to life threatening wounds yes i would

it also comes down to judgement say if i saw something happen like an elderly person being attacked, like what happened a few years back where i wwII vet was beaten and robbed then left for dead, i would being willing to use my ccw

 

[Pistol Toter]

I didn't get my CHL to play policeman.

Yeah, and I'm afraid there are a lot of CCW'ers that did. I just want to get back home and back behind closed and locked doors. My knuckles bruse far too easy, I hurt from old age, and my reflexes ain't what they used to be. The other people have the same opportunity as you did when it comes to their security, keep in mind they very well maybe the ones who think you a very very scarry man with a gun. I'm not an LEO, don't want to be and never did want to be one. If you see me, you'd think that I'm just an ole poor dirt farmer from the backside of Podunk County, Tennessee, a "sleeper" you see, which is just like I want it.

 

[Leanwolf]

Here's a story of a "good citizen" who did help at a critical time. And, he was "open carrying." Plus, he used one of those "almost useless" Colt's Single Action Army slow-to-load .45 Colt revolvers.





http://tinyurl.com/n2m9vq

Richmond Times-Dispatch
Two shot in South Richmond store
By Reed Williams

Published: July 12, 2009

A gunman who had wounded a shopkeeper and opened fire on several customers was stopped yesterday when another man shot him at the store in South Richmond, authorities said.

The violent attempted robbery took place shortly after 1 p.m. at the Golden Food Market at 2701 Jefferson Davis Highway, the same store where another man was shot last month -- and only three blocks from the scene of another robbery in June that left a shopkeeper dead.

Owners of as many as a dozen Jefferson Davis-area businesses flocked to the scene of the shooting, and many were rattled by such a brazen daylight attack, said Councilwoman Reva Trammell, whose 8th District includes the Jefferson Davis corridor.

Trammell, who arrived outside the store shortly after yesterday's shootings, described a frenzied scene. One man told Trammell that the man who had shot the robber was a guardian angel.

"Whoever did it probably saved their lives in there," Trammell said of the shooter.

Police did not identify anyone involved in yesterday's shootings.

The man who shot the robber is a friend of the store owner, and he was wearing a holster with a Western-style revolver, said Managing Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Tracy Thorne-Begland.

After the suspect shot the store owner and opened fire on patrons, the owner's friend shot the suspect once in the torso, took his gun and called police, Thorne-Begland said.

Thorne-Begland said it appeared that the shooting of the suspect was justified, although he emphasized that the investigation was in the early stages.

Police said they expect to file charges against the suspect.

The store owner's injuries did not appear life-threatening, authorities said, but the gunman's injuries were said to be life-threatening. No one else was hurt.

Anthony Gregory, who lives near Golden Food, said he was in the store about 15 minutes before the shootings, and that while he was there, he saw a man with a baby making a purchase.

Gregory said the owner told the baby, "Welcome to the world. This is a dangerous world, so be careful. But don't worry, God will protect you."

Police Cmdr. Steve Drew said officers had been patrolling up and down Jefferson Davis yesterday and recently have bolstered their presence in the area. He said it was unusual for a commercial robbery to happen so early in the day.

The previous shooting at Golden Food took place late the night of June 12. And three nights earlier, a co-owner of the Come and Go Food Market, which is about three blocks north of Golden Food on Jefferson Davis, was shot and killed in a robbery.

Authorities said it was too early to know whether any of the three shootings on Jefferson Davis are connected.

A few hours after yesterday's shootings, Said "Sam" Messaf, the man who was shot June 12 at Golden Food, was at the store to help another man shut down the market.

Messaf described how he had been helping out at the store June 12 when two robbers came inside. One man opened fire, reaching over the counter and shooting as Messaf cowered behind it, he said. Messaf was shot six times in his legs.

He said he suffered nerve damage in his left leg and has trouble sleeping.

Trammell said residents and business owners were scared by the recent violence but have faith that police are doing their best to stop it.

"I'm still shook up," Trammell said. "I'm not afraid, but we've worked so hard on Jefferson Davis -- so hard in that area to bring crime down."


L.W.

 

[goon]

I avoid bars.

 

[freakshow10mm]

A man who does not help in the face of danger is a coward.