twoblink
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[Edited by Coronach to keep this on the High Road. 
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CCW makes you act more responsibly??
- Thread starter 12 Volt Man
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winwun
Member
Zund, I don't think I will ever see the concept described more accurately.
Doc, you were 100% right, also.
Something I find myself doing is studying the factors of a "confrontational situation". I find that in many instances the person who instigates is small in stature, leading to the classic "Napoleon Complex". If vehicles are involved, they will often be old and generally unkempt. The neighborhood, or location, is often less than upscale. Being aware of these factors, (and others) and trying to avoid them goes a long way toward avoiding (which is MUCH better than defusing) a "situation".
If we could be assured that all we would get are a few lumps, then it would be different.
An important thing to remember is the old standard, AVOID EYE CONTACT.
Doc, you were 100% right, also.
Something I find myself doing is studying the factors of a "confrontational situation". I find that in many instances the person who instigates is small in stature, leading to the classic "Napoleon Complex". If vehicles are involved, they will often be old and generally unkempt. The neighborhood, or location, is often less than upscale. Being aware of these factors, (and others) and trying to avoid them goes a long way toward avoiding (which is MUCH better than defusing) a "situation".
If we could be assured that all we would get are a few lumps, then it would be different.
An important thing to remember is the old standard, AVOID EYE CONTACT.
For me carrying weapons changes everything, i feel less "liberated" and am far more serious. I knew horse play and fist fights were over the day i recieved my CWL. That means "punking out" of all those would be confrontations, it stings but that is the price we must accept.
It helps to be able to physically "deflect and subdue" someones attacks without having to make lumps and draw blood if at all possible.
Non lethal weapons can play i big role. I always have mace and an ASP baton.
Improving your verbal skills is also IMO a must, The book Verbal Judo by George J. Thompson Ph.D. & Jerry B. Jenkins has helped me many times over, and highly recomend it.
It helps to be able to physically "deflect and subdue" someones attacks without having to make lumps and draw blood if at all possible.
Non lethal weapons can play i big role. I always have mace and an ASP baton.
Improving your verbal skills is also IMO a must, The book Verbal Judo by George J. Thompson Ph.D. & Jerry B. Jenkins has helped me many times over, and highly recomend it.
chrisb507
Member
My knowledge on this topic is limited to what I learned by reading Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme."
He relates a comment that he has heard from those who carry concealed: "I would've punched that guy in the face if I wasn't carrying a gun."
The reason to avoid a fight is that, since you're carrying, you know how it can end. Say you (not you personally, 12 Volt) take a swing at the Wife Beater Dude. Say he has a friend in the store, or a bat in his truck. In a few seconds, you're on the ground getting stomped, multiple assailants, baseball bats. You now fear for your life. You draw your weapon and shoot. That's OK, since your life was in danger, right?
Maybe. But in court, you'll need to go over everything that lead up to that point. Could you have walked away? Why did you take a swing at the guy? Why did you get into a fight that lead to you using deadly force? You were carrying a gun, why couldn't you ignore this dolt? Everything that leads up to the use of deadly force will likely be considered.
I guess this is a long way of paraphrasing Ayoob: avoid the fight, if at all possible, when you're carrying.
He relates a comment that he has heard from those who carry concealed: "I would've punched that guy in the face if I wasn't carrying a gun."
The reason to avoid a fight is that, since you're carrying, you know how it can end. Say you (not you personally, 12 Volt) take a swing at the Wife Beater Dude. Say he has a friend in the store, or a bat in his truck. In a few seconds, you're on the ground getting stomped, multiple assailants, baseball bats. You now fear for your life. You draw your weapon and shoot. That's OK, since your life was in danger, right?
Maybe. But in court, you'll need to go over everything that lead up to that point. Could you have walked away? Why did you take a swing at the guy? Why did you get into a fight that lead to you using deadly force? You were carrying a gun, why couldn't you ignore this dolt? Everything that leads up to the use of deadly force will likely be considered.
I guess this is a long way of paraphrasing Ayoob: avoid the fight, if at all possible, when you're carrying.
Doc
Member
We should all strive to emulate Jesus Christ who was the perfect role model of Meekness:
power, (ultimate power) under control
He showed anger (money changers in the temple), righteous indignation WHEN appropriate but clearly avoided unwarranted conflict and stupid dangers
Doc
power, (ultimate power) under control
He showed anger (money changers in the temple), righteous indignation WHEN appropriate but clearly avoided unwarranted conflict and stupid dangers
Doc
El Tejon
Member
Emulate Hayzeus??? Hey, Doc, way ahead of you. I rendered unto the Wromans in April!
Doc
Member
...now give us this day our daily ammo...
...lo though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for my rod and my staff shall comfort them who trespass against me...
...lo though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for my rod and my staff shall comfort them who trespass against me...
El Tejon
Member
From the Gospel: ". . . and he reached into his range bag and brought out ammo for the masses . . ."
From the Gospel ". . . one day Hayzeus was instructing at API when the chief scribes of the Temple of the Kaliforistan gun rag came up to him and saith, 'By what authority are you teaching these people that wearing flowered shirts and pointing guns at yourself is inane?'"
From Acts: " . . .now Peter and Kirk were going to the sacred skul in the province of Tejas during the hour of learning. A man ran up to them and cried out, 'pity me, for I have no magazines for my AR.' Peter said silver and gold I do not have; but I give you the name of Urban Carbine, now shoot!"
From the Gospel ". . . one day Hayzeus was instructing at API when the chief scribes of the Temple of the Kaliforistan gun rag came up to him and saith, 'By what authority are you teaching these people that wearing flowered shirts and pointing guns at yourself is inane?'"
From Acts: " . . .now Peter and Kirk were going to the sacred skul in the province of Tejas during the hour of learning. A man ran up to them and cried out, 'pity me, for I have no magazines for my AR.' Peter said silver and gold I do not have; but I give you the name of Urban Carbine, now shoot!"
Doc
Member
now one day the apostles Peter (which means 'one of the small gun' in Saltstone) and Kirk (which mean 'bolt the door and load the magazines in Flambic)
were seated at the feet of the master
and a noviciette came forth and proclamed:
"If you were doing an EP and the principal came under attack, you should push him toward cover and engage the BG's by aiming through your legs, so as not to slow yourself down, wasting time turning around and all. What do u think of that?"
And Master Ray said, "If it was me, I'd know that I was expendible and I would turn around and shoot the BG as well as I could so that he no longer posed a threat to me, since the principal was already wisked away by the waiting vehicle and I was the only remaining target for the BG."
And the noviciette was very sad as the Master did not find his "Tactics" HOLY and CURRECT. So her sought out others of lesser knowledge and abilities to impress with his heresy...
were seated at the feet of the master
and a noviciette came forth and proclamed:
"If you were doing an EP and the principal came under attack, you should push him toward cover and engage the BG's by aiming through your legs, so as not to slow yourself down, wasting time turning around and all. What do u think of that?"
And Master Ray said, "If it was me, I'd know that I was expendible and I would turn around and shoot the BG as well as I could so that he no longer posed a threat to me, since the principal was already wisked away by the waiting vehicle and I was the only remaining target for the BG."
And the noviciette was very sad as the Master did not find his "Tactics" HOLY and CURRECT. So her sought out others of lesser knowledge and abilities to impress with his heresy...
SquirrelNuts
Member
I find myself trying to avoid more if I can. The reason being this: No one knows that I am carrying, and thus I do now know who else is carrying.
-SquirrelNuts
-SquirrelNuts
4
4 eyed six shooter
Guest
Great thread. It shows the quality of the people who are on this board. As much as it sometimes hurts your ego, it is best to walk away when possible. As stated, every move you made from the first time you made contact with a person will be looked at if there is a shooting. I have had to pull twice when in plain cloths and off duty (I was a LEO at the time). Both times it was a robbery attempt. One with a knife, the other a piece of pipe. Both happened very quickly. Both times the idiot ran for his life without a shot being fired. In both cases I saw it comming, went into condition red, looked for a way out but had no time to extract myself from the situation. I sure there would have been other times when it could have been deadly force issue if I hadn't had left or talked my way out. When you have the mindset that you really don't have anything to prove to some idiot, you are on the right track. I do have to admit that I loved the look on their faces when they saw my .45. 
winwun
Member
While respecting the right of someone to speak their mind, I feel the need to say that I find the crude paraphrasing of the scriptures very offensive.
Perhaps I also occasionally offend, if so, I apologize.
Perhaps I also occasionally offend, if so, I apologize.
Sulaco
Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2003
- Messages
- 784
I didn't read all of these posts because I have A.D.D., but I would like to add some thoughts.
The day I decided to carry a concealed weapon, I became the biggest p*ssy in the world. I will back down from anyone anytme. I will scream HELP! in the face of danger and hope like hell that all those around me remember me doing so when the time comes. I absolutely will not draw my weapon unless I fear for my life or the life of someone I care about. The judicial system is stacked against people using deadly force in a self defense situation and that will not change anytime soon (at least where I live).
Only a select number of people (who know me personally) know that I carry concealed. Hopefully, the same can be said 20 or even 30 years from now.
An ego is the first thing a person should loose when they decide to carry a lethal weapon for protection. That is, unless they like prison.
I think your brother (I think it was your brother?) made the correct decision and is alive and well, and more importantly, not in prison because of his ability to think on his feet.
Please read this thread on glocktalk about someone who has actually used his weapon in self defense.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=126319&highlight=involved+shooting
Here is an excerpt;
"So the couple continue walking toward the parking garage, when the GTer notices the gurgling sound of that van slowly passing by them. Then the GTer, who regularly uses windows to watch his 6, notices the two thugs that crossed the street coming up behind them. One of the thugs is clearly holding his right hand suspiciously around his belt buckle area. Then said GTer notices the van stopped on the side of the street just ahead and the 2 thugs behind them are getting closer."
"GT'er" is slang for a member of the glocktalk forum.
The day I decided to carry a concealed weapon, I became the biggest p*ssy in the world. I will back down from anyone anytme. I will scream HELP! in the face of danger and hope like hell that all those around me remember me doing so when the time comes. I absolutely will not draw my weapon unless I fear for my life or the life of someone I care about. The judicial system is stacked against people using deadly force in a self defense situation and that will not change anytime soon (at least where I live).
Only a select number of people (who know me personally) know that I carry concealed. Hopefully, the same can be said 20 or even 30 years from now.
An ego is the first thing a person should loose when they decide to carry a lethal weapon for protection. That is, unless they like prison.
I think your brother (I think it was your brother?) made the correct decision and is alive and well, and more importantly, not in prison because of his ability to think on his feet.
Please read this thread on glocktalk about someone who has actually used his weapon in self defense.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=126319&highlight=involved+shooting
Here is an excerpt;
"So the couple continue walking toward the parking garage, when the GTer notices the gurgling sound of that van slowly passing by them. Then the GTer, who regularly uses windows to watch his 6, notices the two thugs that crossed the street coming up behind them. One of the thugs is clearly holding his right hand suspiciously around his belt buckle area. Then said GTer notices the van stopped on the side of the street just ahead and the 2 thugs behind them are getting closer."
"GT'er" is slang for a member of the glocktalk forum.
Carlos Cabeza
Member
winwun, BLASPHEMOUS HOOSIERS !
TallPine
Member
Blessed are the open-minded, for they shall have a sense of humor.
SquirrelNuts
Member
That is too funny! I will have to share that with my pastor.
-SquirrelNuts
El Tejon
Member
TallPine, be on the lookout for the THRiban.
Doc
Member
amen,
brother tall pine
man is created in God's image
God has a sense of humor
(don't believe me, fine, we'll get to discuss it in the hereafter)
I am a fundementalist, literalist, Pre-Trib, Millilenialist, Calvinist, just for the record.
brother tall pine
man is created in God's image
God has a sense of humor
(don't believe me, fine, we'll get to discuss it in the hereafter)
I am a fundementalist, literalist, Pre-Trib, Millilenialist, Calvinist, just for the record.
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