CCW Practice?

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Gary O

Gary O

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Roseville, CA
My CCW class does not start for some time and I was hoping to practice on a regular basis with the two handguns I hope to have on my license. My question is HOW I should practice i.e., at what range? what size "group" should I be striving for? Just what defines "qualifying"? Thanks...
 
I'm a long ways from you but from all I've read, there's no state standard. Sounds like you may need to direct this question to your class instructor.

Others here who live in California probably know much more.
 
Shoot the course of fire that's used to qualify for you CCW is a good place to start, you also could look online for drills to run. As far as group size, a balance of accuracy and speed is best, so shoot as fast as you can get most hits in the scoring rings, then slow down a touch.

As Bill Jordan said "Speed is fine, but accuracy is finial."

Good luck and hope this helps.
Edit: Just saw TarDevil's post you should contact your instructor for the course of fire.
 
Practice drawing from concealment, then dryfire at people on tv, and do it until it's second nature. As far as accuracy, all shots on a paper plate at 10' works for me. (Drawing, 2 shots, reholster, repeat)
 
If you want a pretty decently comprehensive set of challenges, you could practice the IDPA "Classifier" course of fire. It's 90 rounds and tests a pretty decent set of skills.

http://www.idpa.com/compete/rules

It takes about a half hour or 45 minutes to work through and will give you a very decent weekly practice routine.

If you can make even "Marksman" times, I think you'll pass every CCW qualification on the planet, and 95% of law enforcement qualifications as well.
 
I suggest that you invest in formal firearms training. If you have questions about who to train with or where I will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.
 
I'm interested in knowing if California only issues CC permits based on what you own. I came to shooting past age 60 never having owned a gun. Two friends encouraged me to get my CCP. I thought through the implications and decided to follow through. In NC you can quality with any auto loader or any revolver or both. The class I took provided instruction in law and safety and at the range showed safety and proper handling and loading. The instructor had 82 guns we could use and I brought cheap .22lr ammo and qualified by putting 47 out of 50 in the black. The 3 flyers were up a couple inches from the rise during one of rapid fires the RO had me do. I hadn't shot a pistol that I can remember. I used a Beretta Neos owned by the instructor. Two years later I bought one for myself.
I say all this wondering how much effort is needed in California to qualify?
 
Strive for maximum 4" group sizes out to 25 yards. The reason for this is that adrenaline will reduce your coordination and increase group size by up to 1/3. You can still make head and cardiac triangle hits with 5 to 6" capability. The permit class will not ask you to do too much, so you don't need to practice double taps and so forth.

If you're really serious, attend a two day defensive handgun class before you go.
 
Thanks Tomrkba. I am glad to live in NC, although I came here from Orange County 40 years ago. Our laws seem to be more uniform and most of our Sheriffs more professional. Love the PA clip. My brother retired from a CA PD and now works for the OC DA. He has good stories to tell :)
 
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As Bill Jordan said "Speed is fine, but accuracy is finial."
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Its a nice quote to inspire marksmanship, but I think the Sikes-Fairbain "Any hit is a good hit" and the old "you can't miss fast enough to win" followed by "but its trivial to be slow enough to lose!" best sums things up.
 
California CCW permits are at the whim of the local Sheriff or Chief of Police. Whatever agency is issuing your permit can provide you with a list of approved training classes. Ask for the list (our Sheriff puts it on his website) and call the instructor. They will tell you what course of fire to expect, if you have to "qualify" each gun, and what their requirements are to pass. They want you to pass - you are paying them, and if you fail, they fail.

Many don't require that you shoot what you are going to carry, nor do you have to score a certain score. You do, however, have to demonstrate safe handling of whatever firearm you use. The instructor I had was big on clearing drills. We'd have to jam an empty case in the slide and then clear it. My wife is taking the class next month (she just got approved) and she is nervous about having to do those drills, so she's taking a .22 revolver and a .38 revolver....

I would be very surprised if a timer was involved in any way on the course of fire. Many of the participants are elderly and/or disabled, and this is about self-defense, not law enforcement. Know the four safety rules and follow them to the letter. Don't rush, and don't try anything you feel unsafe doing, and you'll do fine. It's about gun safety, not gunslinging - slow is fine.

I do recommend electronic muffs, and use them beforehand if you aren't used to them. It's good to be able to hear what's going on around you.
 
from the website of the training class I used:

New CCW Information: California Concealed Weapons Permit
Local agencies require those applicants who have been approved for a concealed weapons permit, to complete a one day course of instruction. This course covers subjects which include the legal, moral and ethical issues regarding the use of a firearm for self defense, range qualification, and firearms safety. Attendees should expect to bring a minimum of 100 rounds of ammunition, ear and eye protection. The range portion of the class is, philosophically, training, not qualification. However, we are evaluating you and our experience has been that you will qualify if you take the “training” portion of the range seriously. This class meets the Kern County Sheriff, Bakersfield Police Department, various local Police Department, Inyo County Sheriff, Mono County Sheriff, Tulare County and various other agency requirements for training. If you are applying for a permit from the Kern County Sheriff’s Department, you may take the class prior to applying for the permit. However, the Kern County Sheriff’s Department encourages you to apply first. The application with the Kern County Sheriff costs you nothing so it is often in your best interest to apply first. You may then take the class after you have received the approval letter from the Sheriff. The class certificate is “good” for 90 days with the Kern County Sheriff. So if you take your class first, you have only 90 days to get that application into the Sheriff. Other agencies have different rules and you should check with your agency regarding this issue.
 
Practice drawing from concealment with a blue gun when a friend is shoving you, getting in your face, and trying to take you to the ground.
Practice drawing in different positions (on your back, sitting in a chair, etc.
Practice drawing with one hand and with two hands.

For the class, you probably just have to put X amount of rounds on target at a few relatively close distances.
 
I practice most nights when the wife is asleep. I unload my gun, "of course" and draw from my pocket holster, pointing at various spots in the 40 ft hallway. This is about as real as it's going to get. Chances are that's where I will be, if someone gets in at night. Also use the tac light, and night sights. I have changed several items because of this, including extended magazines.
 
If you have little or no experience, it is best that you start out with quality instruction. Otherwise, you risk developing bad habits ("training scars"). The CCW test is a test of safe firearms handling and basic shooting skills. Several one hour lessons at the local shooting range may be just what you need. Other than that, a two day defensive handgun course is a great way to go.
 
If you have no training, it is best to at least take a basic pistol and perhaps rifle, self defense class, "or you won't know if you are doing anything properly. Just make sure you go to a person who has "real" experience, and not someone who just started teaching last week, as a way to supplement their income on weekends.
Although you can never be sure without looking into their background, it's best to pay a bit more and learn from a top notch instructor, like "Gunsite" .
My local indoor range will let me use 2 lanes, and fire at 2-4 more targets, at different distances, from the holster, if I go when no one is there. "Usually during the week, in the early afternoon or dinner time. It's a lot more efficient, for me, than shooting at one target standing and not being allowed to use a holster, or whatever method you carry, like other places I have seen in Fl, some won't even allow rapid fire, which kind of negates the reason I train. I never understood the idea of just standing there and putting holes in paper at 5-75 feet, unless you are competing, sighting in your gun or teaching a new shooter.
It's also good to be able to practice moving while shooting, and putting space between you and the attacker. these things are hard to do at a range, if not totally impossible.
Most folks don't think to remember that a bad Guy could grab your gun if you let them get too close, or even render it useless, by placing his hand on the slide or cylinder, and thus preventing it from moving. Also a slight twist and you can end up with a broken finger or wrist. Theory is as important as practical, like everything else that requires skill. You should get some instruction in how to get an opponent off of you, should he have made contact with you, using your hands and feet to strike. it's not "all" about pulling the trigger. Remember unlike other means of self defense, "space' and using it to create a proper zone in which to operate correctly is very important. Some forms of self defense want you to close the gap, where here we need you to open that gap up enough to safely use your weapon.
More to digest.
 
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What Gym said. Once upon a time in the distant past I was a Kern County (Bakersfield) deputy sheriff. Back then we only used wheel guns. I don't think snap caps had yet been invented so I used spent brass and I would practice drawing from my duty holster and shooting at targets in varying scenarios around the house (hallways, doorways, etc.) and in the yard. A few months of this and my live-fire hit rate dramatically improved. If you're going to be shooting a Glock get a blue one and practice drawing from your EDC holster. Again, from a variety of positions until muscle memory is well established and the Glock becomes a part of you.
 
If you're going to be shooting a Glock get a blue one and practice drawing from your EDC holster.
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Did the OP mention Glock? I must have missed that. Using a Blue Gun for practicing your draw stroke is a good suggestion and yes, you can find MANY makes and models in Blue Gun or Red Gun offerings. You can also find several makes and models available in Airsoft format. Many of those are identical replicas of the real McCoy down to the millimeter.

As others have stated here, I would highly recommend starting with some professional instruction so you can avoid training scars.

And remember, smooth becomes fast. Do it right, do it smoothly and speed naturally follows.

And one final thought regarding practice, there is no need to "be fast" during reholstering. This step should always be performed slowly and deliberately. Look it in, look it in.
 
Gary O said:
My CCW class does not start for some time and I was hoping to practice on a regular basis with the two handguns I hope to have on my license. My question is HOW I should practice i.e., at what range? what size "group" should I be striving for? Just what defines "qualifying"? Thanks...
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Some advice given here would be for advanced, dedicated students and is ill-suited for someone asking so basic a question.

The best advice is to take a basic handgun class from a good instructor.

The CCW class is for getting a CCW license by learning the legalities and very little else. Passing it is not the pinnacle of handgun prowess, it's just a blip along the way to gaining good defensive handgun shooting skills.
 
I have my CCW in Sacramento county and my course of fire was very easy. We had to practice drawing from a holster and putting rounds on the black on a standard B27 target. Distance was about 10 yds.

The emphasis in my class was on safe gun handling and making sure you could hit the target. That was about it.

Standards for live fire in CA are set by the Sheriff and vary widely. Some of them leave the course of fire up to the instructor.
 
If you think about getting your drivers license, compared to 10 years later. Basically you don't know much about driving if you just studied to pass the test. I remember getting on the highway with my 59 Pontiac in 1967, and it was a heck of a lot different at 60-70 mph, than passing the drivers test at 30 mph.
Think of the gun the same way, now that you got it, you have to practice in order to be able to take advantage of it's full potential. Plus driving a 59 Pontiac and going to a new GTO was a big step up, and I needed to start with strong basics in order to drive the GTO.
Just think of the gun the same way as the car, but you can cut the learning curve substantially by having a pro show you how to do it right the first time instead of bouncing off the guard rail.
 
Teachu2 said:
California CCW permits are at the whim of the local Sheriff or Chief of Police. Whatever agency is issuing your permit can provide you with a list of approved training classes. Ask for the list (our Sheriff puts it on his website) and call the instructor. They will tell you what course of fire to expect, if you have to "qualify" each gun, and what their requirements are to pass. They want you to pass - you are paying them, and if you fail, they fail.

Many don't require that you shoot what you are going to carry, nor do you have to score a certain score. You do, however, have to demonstrate safe handling of whatever firearm you use. The instructor I had was big on clearing drills. We'd have to jam an empty case in the slide and then clear it. My wife is taking the class next month (she just got approved) and she is nervous about having to do those drills, so she's taking a .22 revolver and a .38 revolver....

I would be very surprised if a timer was involved in any way on the course of fire. Many of the participants are elderly and/or disabled, and this is about self-defense, not law enforcement. Know the four safety rules and follow them to the letter. Don't rush, and don't try anything you feel unsafe doing, and you'll do fine. It's about gun safety, not gunslinging - slow is fine.

I do recommend electronic muffs, and use them beforehand if you aren't used to them. It's good to be able to hear what's going on around you.
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Not as of a couple of weeks ago. The courts have removed sheriff's discretion.
In any event, the OP is in Placer county, which has been very close to shall issue for a long, long time.
The course of fire will vary from county to county. Lots of instructors in the Sacto/Roseville area. Go to www.calguns.net You will find a section on LTCs and then it is broken down by county.
 
When I took my CCW qualifications many years ago, I had a woman in the stall next to me actually put 2 rounds in my target. We were only 10' from the targets, and about 3' away from each other. She passed and got her CCW.

There was also an old man that dropped his gun and broke it. The owner of the gun store/indoor range, went in and got him a rental gun to use. On the second shot, he dropped it too, and broke the grip. He also got his CCW.

I don't know what the actual criteria in Ohio is for passing the test, but I thought it was absolutely incredulous that either of them should be legally carrying. :eek::eek::eek:

Just do the best you can do. :)
 
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