CCW training, John Ross style.

[fmjcafe]

I completed my 8 hour gun safety course as required by MO. law last Sunday under the watchful eye of John Ross. Everyone in attendance had a great time. John supplied everything necessary to complete the course in the form of several .22 cal. handguns, both revolvers and auto`s, all the ammo we could shoot, and targets. After everyone sucessfully completed the required course of fire John fired up the grill and cooked up a delicious bbq lunch and everyone hauled out their personal firearms for some informal plinking. The highlight was taking a turn with one of John`s .500 S&W Mag. revolvers and a surprise kicker at the end....
Here`s a link to some pics:
http://home.earthlink.net/~gpiszar/ccw/

 

[shooten]

Cool. Looks like a good time and a good cause. That Thompson looks like a blast to shoot.

Scott

 

[ARperson]

A good friend of mine is scheduled for one of his courses. She's so psyched. And I'm so jealous.

Indiana doesn't require a CCW course (thankfully; I hate the idea of restrictions on my right), but while in AZ, my husband said the knowledge gained regarding laws and case histories alone almost made it worth it.

Almost. Still chaps my hide to have to "test" for a right.

 

[Baba Louie]

Green with envy... Hate you

Makes me wish I was still a resident of the great state of Missouri... Of
course I had to be born and raised on the west coast of MO.

Gotta get back there soon and smile a bit, not being too worried about my previous criminal behaviour.

Lucky you fmjcafe.

Won't be long now till you have your little plastic card allowing you the taxed right to carry concealed, eh? Do you have to get fingerprinted, mugged shot (or is it mug shotted?) and FBI background check and pay for the privilege like we do in NV? (As well as the permit fee, etc?)

Good show to all. (I was jesting about the hate thing.... the envy was real)

Adios

 

[pax]

Good report. Thanks for posting it.

I'm moving this over to "Strategies & Tactics," which is a good place to put class reviews like this.

pax

 

[keyhole]

"the knowledge gained regarding laws and case histories alone almost made it worth it."

I would say that this would be the only reason for having a manditory training for CCW. Also reading, " In the Gravest Extreme" should be manditory reading, if nothing, to make you think more.

 

[fmjcafe]

Baba Louie,
Yeah, we will be fingerprinted and investigated by the MHP
and the FBI plus pay a bit of our treasure for the right? to carry.

Very interesting times here in MO. Wish you were here....

 

[Zach S]

So, you went to a CCW class, had all the firearms, ammo and targets supplied for you, then had a BBQ while doing some informal plinking with personal arms...

If you could see my face, you would undoubtedly read pure jelousy in my eyes.

That Thompson looks like a blast to shoot.

The high bore axis makes it climb (for me). I've put 250 rounds through one, and at the end of the day I still wasnt used to it. I'd hate to fire a full auto, since I doubt I could do so accurately. The fact that I'm a lefty with longarms and the rifle is made bassakwards doesnt help much either. The 50 round drum gets in the way of the foregrip, and is a PITA to unload. It also cost a little more to feed as well. Its also so heavy (12 or 13 lbs, empty) that just aiming for long periods of time can wear somone out, not to mention carrying it in a case with a loaded 50 round drum, two thirty round sticks (downloaded to 25), with another 100 rounds boxed up is pretty tiresome as well. Its an old, outdated, design. With ARs and other rifles at the same, or lower prices, that have much better ergonomics, not to mention being chambered in rifle calibers, I honestly dont see why anyone would want a Tommy Gun, other than nostalgia, or the "awe factor" with friends, family, or perfect strangers at the range.

That said, when I saw one at the local range/FFL on consignment, I fought the urge to buy it for about a month before giving in. I brought it home last Friday, and enjoy it quite a bit. I will probably continue to do so for a long time.

 

[Rickstir]

I took John's class. Did the shooting portion on Saturday and the bookwork on Monday. Fine experience and well worth the $100. And I had to drive 2 hours to get to both classes! I recommend anyone close to St. Louis to get in line for this course. Some ranges are charging $250 for their courses. Ridiculous and I would certain remember their price gouching in the future. John is a wonderful speaker and has a wealth of real-life experiences that add greatly to the class.

 

[sch40]

I'm trying to get in on either the October 9th or 13th class. Is anyone else planning to attend? I'm really looking forward to the material, to meeting John Ross, and reading his book (delivered soon by a government agent).

-sch40

 

[sherm77]

Planning on attending Oct 13th

I'm planning on attending the Oct 13th classroom session from 6pm - 11pm but going to the range prior, so I can complete everything on that day. I'm waiting on John to approve that, but since I'm off on Mon & Tues, that works out best for me. By the way, John's website is: http://john-ross.net

You know, it's a shame that even though I was a volunteer Deputy in Louisiana as a older teenager, spent 2 1/2 years in the Louisiana National Guard (shooting everything from M-16, M-60, .50 cal tank gun, LAWs rocket, hand grenades and qualifying expert in most), 9 1/2 years active duty Air Force, and recieved my armed security license in Oklahoma (fired expert 3 times with S & W .357 revolver - in the snow), I still have to take the CCW class. I'm not boasting, and I'm sure that others could state the same.

Many others have more experience and range of experience than I do, perhaps they've been police officers for years, security, military, but they have to take the class too. We'll also trust people to go hunting with high-powered rifles, but not have to take such classes (if you're old enough like me, you don't have to take the Hunter Safety classes)

Am I to understand that we'll trust someone to protect other people's lives for years, but not to carry a pistol concealed? I know that this is a new law and that they are setting down pretty stringent rules, but since it's a civil right to protect myself and my family, something is awry. On the other hand, seeing that it took us from 1874 - 2003 to get the right restored, I suppose I should just be thankful.

Lastly, please, always wear hearing protection. I bought a Mossberg 500 pump 12 gauge when I was 12 (had my first job as a pooper-scooper for race horses) and didn't wear hearing protection at all. We lived in Abilene, TX and we went hunting most every day. By the time I was 14, I'd caused severe damage to my right ear and moderate in my left. It was a miracle that I even got into the military at all. Every time I use the telephone, I wish that I had used hearing protection. If for noone else, do it for me.

Have a wonderful day!

Sherman

 

[sherm77]

St Louis instructors

A friend from work signed up to take the class at Bullseye Indoor range for $250, and found out the same day that the Florissant Valley Community College was teaching for less than half. He called to cancel his class, but he was informed that his credit card had already been charged and that he couldn't cancel. He's stuck in taking the class there, and I think that stinks.

The only CCW instructors that our esteemed (that was a joke..) newspaper, St Louis Post-Dispatch http://www.stltoday.com has mentioned in three different CCW articles is Bullseye. Seems strange that they haven't mentioned anyone else, nor have they even tried to point anyone in any other direction. I'd like to know what the relationship is there. This is especially interesting since the Post-Dispatch is one of the most liberal newspapers that you're gonna run across, sickeningly so at times.

If anyone has any info about this, please let me know. It's probably a short trail, but perhaps interesting.

By the way, I haven't attended John Ross' class yet, but I would recommend it anyhow. http://john-ross.net

Sherman

 

[sch40]

Ross has just returned my email -- I'm set for the October 9th class and lookin' forward to it.

Sherm, I haven't read 571.094 RSMo (concealed carry law), but I for some reason had assumed that ex-military didn't have to take the course. I suppose it's for the same reason that people with prior training have to -- to become better acquainted with the exact stipulations of the Missouri law, but I'm not expecting them to be too off base (even though 2nd Amendment, right not priveledge, blah blah don't get any of us started...) As far as police officers go, I'm sure all of those on the board (retired or not) are excellent shooters, but this thread and other stories make me a little weary of letting any police officer get a CCW permit no questions asked .

At any rate, I hope I'm not in the class with the KMOV reporter.
Good shooting, all.
-sch40

 

[John Ross]

Sherm: "I'm planning on attending the Oct 13th classroom session from 6pm - 11pm but going to the range prior, "

The next range session is 10/18 and 10/19. I emailed you this. I make it clear on my website that I am out of town the prior two weekends.

John Ross

 

[sherm77]

Re: CCW law

After reviewing the law again, it does have provisions for "armed forces and national guard performing official duties", but nothing in the provisions for prior training or experience.

http://www.moccw.org/HB0349T.htm

In fact, to be issued a CCW, the certificate that you turn in has to have the following items listed on it(section 23 from law):

23. A certificate of firearms safety training course completion may be issued to any applicant by any qualified firearms safety instructor. On the certificate of course completion the qualified firearms safety instructor shall affirm that the individual receiving instruction has taken and passed a firearms safety course of at least eight hours in length taught by the instructor that included:

(1) Handgun safety in the classroom, at home, on the firing range and while carrying the firearm;

(2) A physical demonstration performed by the applicant that demonstrated his or her ability to safely load and unload a revolver and a semiautomatic pistol and demonstrated his or her marksmanship with both;

(3) The basic principles of marksmanship;

(4) Care and cleaning of concealable firearms;

(5) Safe storage of firearms at home;

(6) The requirements of this state for obtaining a certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement from the sheriff of the individual's county of residence and a concealed carry endorsement issued by the department of revenue;

(7) The laws relating to firearms as prescribed in this chapter;

(8) The laws relating to the justifiable use of force as prescribed in chapter 563, RSMo;

(9) A live firing exercise of sufficient duration for each applicant to fire a handgun, from a standing position or its equivalent, a minimum of fifty rounds at a distance of seven yards from a B-27 silhouette target or an equivalent target;

(10) A live fire test administered to the applicant while the instructor was present of twenty rounds from a standing position or its equivalent at a distance from a B-27 silhouette target, or an equivalent target, of seven yards.

BTW, I was wrong about the Monday class. I'll have to wait until there's an all Monday class to take with John Ross, he said they're working on it..

Sherman

 

[sherm77]

John, you're right..

I was wrong to jump the gun, I was assuming too much and didn't read your website like I should have. I did get your email after I posted the earlier notes.

I apologize. Thanks for offering the courses and everything you've done for Missouri residents. Hopefully other states will take our lead and we'll end up with all 50 states CCW.

Sherman

 

[jdege]

Did anyone ask him when he'll get the second half of "how MO got CCW" on his website?

http://john-ross.net/ross_in_range.htm

The 9/14 column is up, but the 9/21 column is overdue.

 

[sch40]

Sherm, thanks for the post of the law. I've been meaning to read it, but just haven't dedicated the time yet. oops

jdege: yeah! I've been wondering about that too! Finish the story!

 

[jdege]

I've found that if I promise to do something weekly, then people expect me to do it weekly.


Odd, that

So I much prefer to promise to do something whenever I damned well feel like it.

My old web page was far less useful than JR's:

http://www.visi.com/~jdege/rude.html