PokeyOkie
Member
Can anyone tell me about these guns? I have a fellow trying to trade me one for an older Kahr semi auto Thompson. Anything to be cautious of with the CETME's?
Century Arms CETME?
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Dreamcast270mhz
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You need to check the bolt gap. Is this fellow local? If so take the CETME to the range with him to verify safe function. I think the gap's optimal size is like .030 but don't take my word for it.
PokeyOkie
Member
He is local. Thanks for the heads up about head spacing.
Century CETME's need to be inspected closely prior to purchase, but can be pretty dang fun, and good, rifles.
Check these links:
Cocking Tube Gap
Bolt Gap Check
Bolt Gap should be between .004 and .02 inches.
I really like my CETME. It's a fun rifle to shoot, and a pretty neat example of an early battle rifle.
Now......Cue the Century haters.
ETA: Also check here for a good pics on what a ground bolt looks like.
Check these links:
Cocking Tube Gap
Bolt Gap Check
Bolt Gap should be between .004 and .02 inches.
I really like my CETME. It's a fun rifle to shoot, and a pretty neat example of an early battle rifle.
Now......Cue the Century haters.
ETA: Also check here for a good pics on what a ground bolt looks like.
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atblis
Member
I wouldn't touch unless I was getting rid of something I really didn't want. Still haven't seen a working Century Cetme to this day.
atblis
Member
Funny, that looks more like a picture of a CETME.
What I meant is that while my sample doesn't prove that all Century CETMEs are junk, it's a very strong indicator.
Century makes rubbish. Plain and simple.
What I meant is that while my sample doesn't prove that all Century CETMEs are junk, it's a very strong indicator.
Century makes rubbish. Plain and simple.
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PokeyOkie
Member
Thanks for all the help! I'll look it over carefully before trade.
I thought Century primarily imported firearms, not made them.... I've got a Chinese Century coach gun and an old friend of mine has one of their Sterlings he dolled up to look like a Blaster Rifle (He's a Star Wars geek...) and yet another friend has one of their... Gasp! CETME rifles! With the exception of a barrel issue with the coach gun (Covered by warranty, Century replaced the entire gun,) none of us have had serious issues.
There is an article on the Century Arms CETME in the August 2011 issue of Guns Magazine.
According to the article the rifle has a new barrel. Shot well with Black Hills, 1.5 to 2” groups.
I have a PTR91 and I prefer the drum sights of my PTR91 to the flip up sights of the CETME.
It is about time gunwriters understood the functioning of weapons and they are getting it right with this article. On page 33 there is a long section about the gas lubrication used in these roller bolt rifles. Without the gas lubrication provided by the chamber flutes this action would rip the case heads of cartridges. The Germans copied flutes from a captured Russian machine gun, put it in their WWII roller bolts, and the rest is history. Chamber flutes are the reason you don’t see messy oilers on post WWII semi automatic mechanisms. Gas lubrication obsoleted oils and grease lubrication al la Pederson rifle, schwarzlose machine gun, Swedish Ljungman. Japanese Nambu, Breda machine gun, and the 20mm Oerlikon and Polsten cannons. .
However, for the mechanism to work the chamber and flutes must be kept clean. If cartridges with tar sealant are used the tar will condense in the flutes and block the friction breaking function of the flutes. There have been all sorts of complaints of malfunctions due to excessive breech friction if you search the web. PTR has a long list of ammunition they don’t recommend precisely because the stuff creates too much breech friction. Roller bolt actions work best with clean ammunition and I suspect with fast burning powders.
According to the article the rifle has a new barrel. Shot well with Black Hills, 1.5 to 2” groups.
I have a PTR91 and I prefer the drum sights of my PTR91 to the flip up sights of the CETME.
It is about time gunwriters understood the functioning of weapons and they are getting it right with this article. On page 33 there is a long section about the gas lubrication used in these roller bolt rifles. Without the gas lubrication provided by the chamber flutes this action would rip the case heads of cartridges. The Germans copied flutes from a captured Russian machine gun, put it in their WWII roller bolts, and the rest is history. Chamber flutes are the reason you don’t see messy oilers on post WWII semi automatic mechanisms. Gas lubrication obsoleted oils and grease lubrication al la Pederson rifle, schwarzlose machine gun, Swedish Ljungman. Japanese Nambu, Breda machine gun, and the 20mm Oerlikon and Polsten cannons. .
However, for the mechanism to work the chamber and flutes must be kept clean. If cartridges with tar sealant are used the tar will condense in the flutes and block the friction breaking function of the flutes. There have been all sorts of complaints of malfunctions due to excessive breech friction if you search the web. PTR has a long list of ammunition they don’t recommend precisely because the stuff creates too much breech friction. Roller bolt actions work best with clean ammunition and I suspect with fast burning powders.
atblis
Member
They do mostly import things. That's where most of the confusion comes in. If it is made by Century, there's a good probability it's a steaming pile of monkey crap.
The Sterling is made by Wiselite.
The core functionality of the Romanian AKs are made in Romania hence the reason they usually work.
The Sterling is made by Wiselite.
The core functionality of the Romanian AKs are made in Romania hence the reason they usually work.
Joe Demko
Member
I've purchased various Century guns over the years. All of them worked, though the Maadi AK had canted sights. For comparison, two of the three Keltecs I've bought had to go back to the factory. One of the two CZ's needed work by CZ custom and new magazines before it worked right.
Century isn't a first tier manufacturer by any means, but to say everything they make is garbage is a wild overstatement. I always buy from them figuring the gun may require work. So far, that has been true only once.
Century isn't a first tier manufacturer by any means, but to say everything they make is garbage is a wild overstatement. I always buy from them figuring the gun may require work. So far, that has been true only once.
atblis
Member
What guns do you have that they made?
If you thoraly know the weapon, and can determine every single thing, and I mean every single detail of the weapon is in spec, then go for it. Else, they could be an expensive boat anchor.
I bought one and the barrel was pitted out pretty bad, I sent it back along with a G3, and FN-LAR that didn't work right either (battin' 1000 here). They sent back one that was even worse. I called Centruy, and they said they would only honor 1 callback. In addition, if you buy the rifle from a dealer, chances are that it will be out of "Century Arms Warrenty", which is like 30 days, but this is from the hour it left their facility, not when you bought it.
The CETME I obtained from Century has an out of spec receiver, in that the magazine well is too low, and does not hold the magazine close enough to the bolt to feed rounds. My G3 is the same way. Want to buy some gently used guns?
I bought one and the barrel was pitted out pretty bad, I sent it back along with a G3, and FN-LAR that didn't work right either (battin' 1000 here). They sent back one that was even worse. I called Centruy, and they said they would only honor 1 callback. In addition, if you buy the rifle from a dealer, chances are that it will be out of "Century Arms Warrenty", which is like 30 days, but this is from the hour it left their facility, not when you bought it.
The CETME I obtained from Century has an out of spec receiver, in that the magazine well is too low, and does not hold the magazine close enough to the bolt to feed rounds. My G3 is the same way. Want to buy some gently used guns?
armoredman
Member
Test fire several magazines worth before buying. Mine made it through 1 magazine before it refused to ever function again. I was very lucky, sold it to a tinkerer for almost what I paid for it, took a small loss. I have had two Century made rifles, the CETME and a WASR-10. The CETME cost the man I sold it too some coin and effort before he could get it running halfway right. The WASR had to have a Red Star trigger group and the front sight cant fixed.
If it works for you, great, maybe it was made right. If not, unkless you like to tinker with broken things to make them work, it may not be for you.
In all fairness to Century, they supposedly make a very good clone of the vz-58 in the vz-2008, lots of positive reviews.
If it works for you, great, maybe it was made right. If not, unkless you like to tinker with broken things to make them work, it may not be for you.
In all fairness to Century, they supposedly make a very good clone of the vz-58 in the vz-2008, lots of positive reviews.
az_imuth
Member
I purchased one of the very early CETME's with the cast stainless receiver and what appeared to be unnissued parts, including the barrel. It has functioned 100% since day one. I have checked the bolt gap in the past purely out of curiosity and it was unground and well within spec. It didn't take long for me to realize I got lucky since there were so many complaints about these rifles. Not my favorite rifle by any means, but it's had many rounds through it without a hitch. I also have one of Century's Yugo M70AB2T underfolders built on the DCI receiver that has been excellent. However, it's my understanding that Century contracted those builds out to someone else.
nwilliams
Member
Bad trade! Do not trade a used semi-auto Thompson for a used Cetme! That is not a fair trade, sounds like the guy is trying to rip you off.
A used Cetme is worth maybe $300-$400 depending on whether it works and what it's condition is. A used Thompson, even an older one is worth twice that if not a little more.
You can buy a brand new Cetme for $500, you won't find a brand new Thompson in that price range.
You are always taking a chance when you buy a Century made gun and especially so with one of their Cetme or G3 clones. For what you could get for your used Thompson you could probably almost pay for a brand new PTR-91.
A used Cetme is worth maybe $300-$400 depending on whether it works and what it's condition is. A used Thompson, even an older one is worth twice that if not a little more.
You can buy a brand new Cetme for $500, you won't find a brand new Thompson in that price range.
You are always taking a chance when you buy a Century made gun and especially so with one of their Cetme or G3 clones. For what you could get for your used Thompson you could probably almost pay for a brand new PTR-91.
Dreamcast270mhz
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I don't know man, any semi auto smg is a long barreled heavy pistol that either has no stock or an ugly 16" barrel. I'd go with a CETME, plus an extra bbl, rollers and ten mags. The semi auto tommys ive seen have crappy sights, nothing like the lyman ones they used to come with. just don't see the point in semi only smgs, the biggest attraction to them is their high rate of fire and low recoil in full auto, both of which are negated thanks to Rep Hughes, Rangel and the ATF.
nwilliams
Member
^^^
I don't think it comes down to whether or not the Cetme is better or worse than the semi-auto Thompson, it really just comes down to value and getting a fair trade. Whether you like the Thompson or not the fact remains that a used Thompson is worth far more than a used Century Cetme.
I'm not a big fan of the Thompson myself, I made the mistake of buying one and then I sold it shortly thereafter and used the money to buy something more practical. I can certainly understand trading the Thompson for something but make sure that what you trade for is equal to the value of what you are trading.
I don't think it comes down to whether or not the Cetme is better or worse than the semi-auto Thompson, it really just comes down to value and getting a fair trade. Whether you like the Thompson or not the fact remains that a used Thompson is worth far more than a used Century Cetme.
I'm not a big fan of the Thompson myself, I made the mistake of buying one and then I sold it shortly thereafter and used the money to buy something more practical. I can certainly understand trading the Thompson for something but make sure that what you trade for is equal to the value of what you are trading.
amd6547
Member
Here is another Century CETME that has been perfect through several 200rd battlepacks. I was considering selling it, since 7.62 NATO has gotten expensive. Decided to shoot it one more time a couple weeks ago...Think I will keep it, It ROCKS.
The target shown was shot at 100yds. I keep switching between the HK Green stock set and the Spanish wood.
No doubt there are plenty of CETME's with problems, but almost everything is easy to fix, from what I have read on militaryfirearms.com.
I agree, thet a trade for a thompson semi is not in your favor. Buy a CETME instead.
The target shown was shot at 100yds. I keep switching between the HK Green stock set and the Spanish wood.
No doubt there are plenty of CETME's with problems, but almost everything is easy to fix, from what I have read on militaryfirearms.com.
I agree, thet a trade for a thompson semi is not in your favor. Buy a CETME instead.
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nwilliams
Member
^^^
IMO it looks gorgeous with that wood furniture, I would keep it that way.
IMO it looks gorgeous with that wood furniture, I would keep it that way.
The key to these rifles is to educate one's self and inspect. I wish that I could say that this was how I did it. Mine has been flawless, but it was pretty much luck. At the time of purchase I knew a little about the issues with these rifles but nothing compared to what I learned at militaryfirearm.com after acquiring the rifle. That is the go-to site. Mine had a bolt gap right in the middle of the acceptable range and the bolt was not ground. Although the rifle was as it should be I still did some tweaks improving the bolt gap so that it will probably never be an issue. My rifle has been such a performer that I have pretty much ignored my PTR 91K to date. I would also add that there are ways to determine which generation a rifle belongs to from a casual visual inspection, earlier generations more likely to have issues than later generations. Still, a full in-person inspection armed with the right knowledge is by far the best bet.
Another thing is that one really should be prepared and able to service the rifle themself. It's not rocket science but still takes someone willing to learn and tinker/tweak if and when needed.
Here's my rifle wearing wood that I restored.
Another thing is that one really should be prepared and able to service the rifle themself. It's not rocket science but still takes someone willing to learn and tinker/tweak if and when needed.
Here's my rifle wearing wood that I restored.
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451 Detonics
Member
The CETME is a good rifle however as stated sometimes the CIA guns do have issues. Check bolt gap as stated , should be between .010 and .015 ideally. New rollers can tweak this measurement but not by very much. I got my CETME in a trade, not a gun I really wanted but I didn't have much in it. The gap was way off so I bought a new unissued bolt ($65) and ended up with a gap of .013...just about perfect. HK green furniture ran me another 20 bucks. My gun hates HK mags so I bought 20 CETME mags at 8 bucks each. Today I still have the rifle, it is my go to gun when I want a .308 semi with optics (my M1A hasn't been out of the safe in over a year).
As far as measuring bolt gap remember it needs to be done with the hammer in the fired position...
As far as measuring bolt gap remember it needs to be done with the hammer in the fired position...
Hocka Louis
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Re: the headspace, isn't this a roller-lock arm and so the headspace is self adjusting? Wasn't that a big deal!?
A buddy has one: a G3 from Century (semi-auto) -- is that right? With HK parts except receiver and furniture as I understand it?! I personally find it front heavy and had to be honest and say I found it only moderately accurate with surplus ammo when he thought it was a tack-driver. 'course he used a scope and I go open sights. And I am also more used to an AR. The 7.62 x 51 NATO is something to handle! I did convince him to go out and buy a spare parts set to keep it up and running for an uncertain lifetime.
A buddy has one: a G3 from Century (semi-auto) -- is that right? With HK parts except receiver and furniture as I understand it?! I personally find it front heavy and had to be honest and say I found it only moderately accurate with surplus ammo when he thought it was a tack-driver. 'course he used a scope and I go open sights. And I am also more used to an AR. The 7.62 x 51 NATO is something to handle! I did convince him to go out and buy a spare parts set to keep it up and running for an uncertain lifetime.
armoredman
Member
Do remember, there were some CETME Sporters brought into the US in the late 1960s, and those are genuine CETME rifles from the original factory, NOT Century re-works on parts kits. I don't believe there was very many of them, and they probably command a premium, but one of those would be definitely worth it.
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