CFE223 & Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT

[JamieC]

Just bought a pound of CFE223 and some Hornady 55gr FMJs. Getting ready to reload my first 223 loads. I've found some data including on the Hodgdon site, seems different 55gr bullets require different starting loads. Barnes TSX 55gr starts at 24.7, CFE223, no direct listing for Hornady FMJ. 55gr SPR SP starts at 26gr, (not sure who/what SPR is). 60gr Hornady VMax starts at 25gr for CFE223. Any suggestions? I realize this is fairly new powder, I'm still searching.

 

[quaid]

SPR - speer. SP - soft point.

SPR SP are what I would compare to your Hornady fmj bullets of equal weight.

 

[rcmodel]

Yep!

26.0 is your starting load with your 55 FMJ bullet.

rc

 

[climbnjump]

For .223 Remington, Hornady Handbook 9th Edition lists a start load of 24.8 and a max load of 27.4 gr of CFE223 with their 55 gr bullets which does include their FMJ. (WSR primer and Winchester case.)

 

[JamieC]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, this is what makes reloading such fun, I guess I'm better off going with the powder manufacturer's recommendation over Hornady's. Of course I could split the difference and start at 25.5gr,

 

[Conservidave]

Im interested in knowing how these loads work out for you. i just worked up and shot a set of rounds with 55G VMax and CFE. I was a little disappointed to say the least however, it's also entirely possible i was just having a bad day. but i plan on trying again with some 55grn - 60grn HPBT's if i can find some. What rifle are you shooting?

Dave,

 

[Rule3]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, this is what makes reloading such fun, I guess I'm better off going with the powder manufacturer's recommendation over Hornady's. Of course I could split the difference and start at 25.5gr,

Why? Why not the specific data for the exact bullet that Hornady tested?

Hornady lists several velocities not just a start and max, they test using an actual rifle and not a test barrel.

 

[JamieC]

So what you're saying is the bullet manufacturer is more reliable than the powder maker? Not trying to be a wise guy, I'm curious. Hornady's info is based on the actual use of a gun, Hodgdon uses a test barrel? FWIW, searching brought me info that the start load is closer to Hogdon, (higher), than Hornady. I know rcmodel has a fair amount of experience.

Consevridave, it'll be awhile, still have to build it. Bought myself a Christmas present, I've wanted an AR for a bit, finances mainly put it off. The finances have improved, I like to build stuff, I ran across a neat deal at my local range, TWS makes ARs, they also put together a build kit, all parts included. Seemed like the way to go, all the parts, they should all fit with each other. I can learn the actual build instead of figuring out that some of the parts I sourced from different places don't fit together. It's a 16" barrel, 1 in 9 twist. What problems did you have using CFE223? It was one of several powders I had on a list of possibilities, it was on the shelf when I went into the new Bass Pro Shop that just opened near me.

 

[Rule3]

No, I never said that. You will find (not just in this case) that test data varies all over the place. It depends on what manual or powder web site you use. Hodgdon is very conservative. As it is a new powder not many manuals have it listed.

Look up some older powders and the data between Lyman, Speer, Hornady whatever is all different.

Hornady makes the bullets, makes the reloading equipment, tests the bullets and powders and has been doing so for a long time. They do not post data in their manuals that are not correct. They give actual FPS for 4-6 different charges.

Hodgdon (as much as I like them) only is a distributor they make nothing.

There is another thread here on discrepancy of data for H335 between Hodgdon and Hornady . I went and tested the lower powder charges. I should have chronographed them but did not. Bottom line they all worked fine.

It's up to the reloader to use the data they feel is best. Do not use any data from posts on the internet.

Bottom line, the differance between Hodgdon and Hornady is really not all that different. The Main thing is Hornady used and tested the exact bullet. Hodgdon did not. True it's the same weight but in reloading any change, changes the whole "recipe"

Read the last few post of this thread, same thing different powder.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=737663

 

[JamieC]

Yeah, it's definitely a bit of a 'buffet', there's a lot of information out there, pick what you use. I like to read a lot of internet 'info', get an average there, see how close it comes to whatever is available in reloading manuals. If I'm lucky, I'll find the exact recipe in a known manual, start there. This is my first 'effort' into rifle reloading. If I start at 24.8gr vs 26gr, there is a 1.2gr difference, roughly 5%, looking at it that way, not a biggie.

 

[Rule3]

If you are new to this and do not already have them, buy several manuals.

Lyman, Speer, Hornady. The LEE manual is is just compiled info from other sources from who knows when, Also who knows what bullet.

You will find discrepancies in all of them VS the powder companies. They all will work there is just differences in the test, day of the week,powder lot number, test platform, actual bullet, heck the phase of the Moon

I trust Hodgdon as I also trust Hornady or Speer . If I use their specific bullet than all the better I will use their manual data. It's always good to compare. If you have a chronograph then that helps also. Start low and work up

 

[stavman11]

Every data Location ya look will be different..... thats the interweb and Reality


I have loaded a LOT of those FMJ with CFE223...

Landed at 26.1gr.... Liked the 27.1gr but really saw no reason to go 27gr vs 26gr

Load a good Ladders worth and see what works for YOU...... Thats what Loading and Testing is all about....

have fun and Be safe...

 

[JamieC]

That's part of the reason for building this gun, along with the actual build, I'm looking forward to working up loads for it. Have a new chronograph coming for Christmas, hopefully this one will last longer than the first TWO, (died of lead poisoning, my son helped!)

 

[Conservidave]

What problems did you have using CFE223?

No problems with the CFE, per se... it was just that several of the load groups were stringing vertically and horizontally which is something that's never happened to me before, especially with the VMax bullets. One thing that i may have over looked is the fact that i had primed the cases with magnum primers from another reload batch using a different powder. Im certainly not ready to give up on this stuff but there's some more work to be done on my part. (= FUN)

Dave,

 

[Mikewb]

CFE 223 powder

Hi good to se someone else is starting to use CFE223. I am off to the range this Sunday to test some 55gr FMJs, let you know how I get on.

 

[Mikewb]

CFE223 Powder

Went to the range over the weekend. Loaded some 223 55Gr FMJ, CFE 223 powder. 2.250 COAL 26.5 gr . Used the Hornady factor cases for reloads. Don't have a Chrono but pleased with the results. I have a Stag AR15 16" barrel with 1.9 twist. Sorry bit shaky after Christmas but not bad at 50m even managed 1 in the same hole.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=192952&stc=1&d=1388304418

 

[Conservidave]

Looks like a pretty good load there Mike, are you shooting from a rest or off hand?
I found some 55g BTHP's that i'll work up in a day or two and post up some pics if i can figure out how.

 

[Mikewb]

Hi I was using a rest but getting a bit blurry after sighting a new scope in, still needs bit fine tuning. Yes it is quiet a task to upload a picture but got there in the end. Mind you if I leave it there it would be good for 100m. Didn't have time to try that.


Good shooting

Mike

 

[ArchAngelCD]

No problems with the CFE, per se... it was just that several of the load groups were stringing vertically and horizontally which is something that's never happened to me before, especially with the VMax bullets. One thing that i may have over looked is the fact that i had primed the cases with magnum primers from another reload batch using a different powder. Im certainly not ready to give up on this stuff but there's some more work to be done on my part. (= FUN)

Dave,

It's possible the wind was playing with your groups if they were stringing both vertically and horizontally.

As for magnum primers, many reloaders use a CCI#41 primer for AR ammo which is a magnum strength primer. Even if they don't use a CCI#41 primer many reloaders will use a magnum primer because they feel it will perform better with a ball powder. I doubt a magnum primer will cause stringing but it's not completely impossible. Before you do anything else I would build more ammo as close as you can to the ammo that showed stringing except for using the primers you usually use that never showed stringing. Be sure the wind conditions are the same if possible.

Don't for get the range report...

 

[Conservidave]

Here's a look at one of the better groups with the CFE and 55G BTHP's i scrounged up. For these rounds i used CCI 41Br primers. I didn't have any wind and only loaded 20 so i shot 4 round groups. This is from a Savage .223 bolt @ 100 yards. I think my next work up will be with something a little heavier like a 60g VMax if i can find any.

 

[leefan]

27.0 grains of TG pushing a Barnes 55 grain FMJ worked for me.

 

[horseman1]

27.0 grains of TG pushing a Barnes 55 grain FMJ worked for me.

If TG means TiteGroup I hope you mean 2.7gr Otherwise, I will go outside and see if I can find some of your gun parts out in the pasture here in Colorado

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I have 4 pounds of CFE223 and have been looking for the same load for the exact same bullet and have been doing some testing. Below is my best 10 shots across the chronograph.

Firearm: Bushmaster DCM-XR A2 Fixed Handle -- Fixed Sights

Distance:100 yards

Bullet:Hornady 55grFMJ

Powder:CFE223 -- 26.9gr -- Of course I worked up to this load from 25.9 the target attached was most accurate so far. I figured if I could do this with open sights at 100 yards, then maybe no need for me to go further.

Primer:CCI41

Chronograph: ProChrono Digital
3023
3009
2996
3023
3016
2996
2949 Low
3030
3044 Hi
3009 Average

95 Extreme Spread
25 Standard Deviation

Shots in the center of the target -- Ignore the shots on the bottom those were fired from my M1A with milsurp ammo.

Hope this help --- This load was safe and accurate in my rifle listed above as a test platform, I highly suggest working up a load in your rifle and not starting with this one. Hornady #9 manual list 24.8 - 27.4, I would also highly suggest you acquire the Hornady #9 manual for this bullet as there are a lot of good loads for this bullet in that manual, there is another one with 748 that my rifle absolutely loves and does a lot better than CFE223 but CFE223 was to be used just for plinking.

 

[leefan]

If TG means TiteGroup I hope you mean 2.7gr Otherwise, I will go outside and see if I can find some of your gun parts out in the pasture here in Colorado

Haha! A senior moment while reloading with TG! CFE 223, of course. What's that advice? "Follow internet load recommendations at your own peril?"

 

[horseman1]

Haha! A senior moment while reloading with TG! CFE 223, of course. What's that advice? "Follow internet load recommendations at your own peril?"

LOL, Good advise Indeed!