CH-4D deswagger came today....

[RussellC]

I am not giving up on it, but initial opinion is that it isnt worth shucks. The machining on this unit is pathetic, the threads rough and towards the end of the threads slightly mangled, it did screw into the press however. The ram part actually fit into the Press's slot for it, but on the die end of things, where the shell holder snaps in, well, it not only does not snap in, it is flat loose to the point the shell holder wants to fall out when you remove the brass. I think this may allow the shell holder and shell to move sufficiently as to not be lined up with the primer hole....something isnt right. In short, it destroyed every piece of brass I have put in it, and it hasnt deswagged anything.

The ram rises up meets the shell, then pushes it up crooked bending the base of the shell. I have tried backing the height of the ram down to the point it doesnt contact the primer hole, and slowly adjusted it up until it barely contacted, but as soon as you get it high enough to contact, it bends the base of the rim.

Perhaps it is the shell holder? (Lee) Maybe another brand fits it (body of the CH-4D deswagger) better and wont mess up the brass. I'm not sure if it needs a better fit to the shell holder, or if the end of the shell holder that holds the brass may be tighter on other brands of shell holders. As the ram contacts it, the brass tilts, then continued pressure bends the rim.

If anyone else tries this thing and has better luck, please comment and tell me what I am doing wrong. This must be operator error to some degree, or this thing is total trash. I will hold on to it until I hear from any other users that may be having success with it. As for now, it hasnt deswagged anything, and has destroyed every piece of brass I tried to use iot on. Surely I am doing something wrong!

Russellc

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I don't have the unit you are talking about but I have two sets of dies from CH4D and the craftsmanship and functionality is outstanding - fit and finish as good if not better than the best.

I'd send this unit back or call them on the phone. I have had some phone contact with them and they seem very cordial and professional. Ordered a slightly larger expander plug for my .32 ACP dies and they sent it gratis.

Nice folks and if it doesn't work for you I know they'd prefer you'd be happy/satisfied.

VooDoo

 

[RussellC]

I dealt with them on the phone, and they were nice, but still, the machining on this is worse than any die I have ever seen. The top ridge of the threads (the sharp edge) has nicks and gaps, making it very easy to cut yourself on. The shell holder fits so loose you can grab it and move it around it the little socket they usually "snap" into.

The fit and finish is one thing, but the inability of it to deswagg is another. It tries to push the brass out, it turn crooked then bends the rim...every time.

Like I said, I am holding on to it, I will definitely be calling monday morning. Hopefully, it is user error on my part, or the socket to put you shell holder in is cut out way to large.

I am not trying to trash anyone, but several of us on another thread about a different deswagger got interested in this unit. I told the others I had one on the way and promised to report on it, and that I did.

Anybody else using this unit? It looks like it would work, just didnt. I wish it did, I am looking at 1500 lake city cases I bought at a gun show this morning
and am relegated to using a small handheld Lyman unit to deswagg!

Russellc

 

[higgite]

I have one and found it fiddly to get set up right. Once set, it works like a champ, but like I said, it's fiddly... you really have to fine tune it. I usually ruined a few cases every time I set it up for a different brand of brass. At least, that's my experience. Others may have better luck... or skills, than me.

It sounds like you might be trying to set it to reach the flash hole with the swaging knob. That'll never happen without totally mangling the rim. You don't need to go that far to swage the crimp. I found very little "feel" to the procedure. If you feel it swaging, you've gone too far. ymmv

 

[RussellC]

Yes, I have been fiddling with it for some while, but think I have it working. I suppose it is kind of obvious, but once the shell holder is in place, if you rotate the spring thing around it will lock the shel holder in place. This tightens it up enough that the tip of the ram, which is kind of conical, lines things up.

The fiddly part seems to be getting the height of the ram right. Too short, no swagging occurs. Too high and it bends the case. I have it now where I can get a primer in, still "crunches" a little, but adjusting the ram higher trashes the case.

I still am not happy with the machining that was done, but I think I can get this thing to work. Bring on the 1500 LC and several hundred WCC cases!

I will continue to comment as I work with this thing.

Russellc

 

[higgite]

Yeah, I forgot to mention closing the spring retainer for the shellholder. Glad you figured it out.

 

[Wil Terry]

D-e-s-w-a-g-g-e-r...?

 

[km101]

^^^ Crimped primer pocket swager for military brass.

 

[FROGO207]

I have one of the combo ones (ramprime also) and it works well once you get it adjusted correctly. I prefer it to the RCBS one that I also own FWIW. The only drawback is the lack of instructions----guess you are supposed to know how to make it work without them. Mine is somewhat better in the machining department than yours it sounds.

 

[mtrmn]

Here's an instruction PDF. I think. This attachment process is a bit unwieldy for a knuckledragging redneck such as myself.

 

[RussellC]

I will call them tomorrow and see if they can add anything. I have followed the directions to a tee. So far, about 30 ruined brass. I will try for a while longer, then this thing hits the refuse pile and I'll try the Dillon 600.

So far, the head of my Lyman reamer stuck in a drill beats it stupid.

Russellc

 

[HighExpert]

Dillon. Works great.

 

[mtrmn]

Are you sure you're not trying to shove the large swager in a small primer pocket?

This is the best/fastest swager I've ever used. You do NOT have to bottom the swaging ram out in the primer pocket. Always start with the press ram at the top of the stroke. put a case in the shell holder and screw the "die" down until the swaging ram just touches the case. Then back the press ram off and make VERY SMALL adjustments until you have a swaged primer pocket that you can get a primer into.

One of the members on this very forum posted a youtube video of this swager that is very helpful as well. Go to youtube and search CH4D.

 

[mtrmn]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=737360&highlight=ch4d

found it for you

 

[RussellC]

Yes, I am sure. I am going to experiment with different shell holder brands just in case.
Thanks for the instructions mtrmn, much appreciated. In use, following the directions it does nothing at first, which is what the instructions say should happen. Slowly dialing it in, retesting to see if primer goes in, then tightening a bit more, still not enough, adjust more, then it bends the rim. Back it off a tad, no decrimping. Still playing, but I think the dillon 600 is my next choice. I would really like a method like this that doesnt cut the brass, but "reshapes" it.

Russellc

 

[FROGO207]

The pin in your setup could have been cut too thin. This would not be the first time someone made a mistake in manufacture. Have you tried the other size pin in a different sized casing (7.62X51)? Did it work? That would be my thought to try next. They should send you another pin if any doubts. Mine works just like in the video posted. Measure a primer and your pin, the pin should be .001 or so smaller than the primer at best near the step. Mine is tapered by the looks of it. I will find my calipers and measure mine for you.

 

[RussellC]

Well, watching these videos and hearing everyone rave about this thing, I am determined to make this thing work. Question: how do you all describe the feel of seating the primer?

I think my problems are two fold:

1. Shell holder? Maybe too loose on the brass? (Lee brand maybe others are tighter?)

2. feel of the primer seating is rough, sort of like when you inadvertently hit a piece of brass with a crimp, that "crunch" do you all get that feel? Also the primer looks funny...sort of like when the shell tilted it doesnt decrimp the whole edge, making the primer look ever so slightly deformed...may be related to question 1., shell holder too loose. ( on the brass, not the ram)

Could one of you having success describe your protocol, including look and feel of primer insertion?

Thankyou for your help and patience!



Russellc

 

[Rule3]

Dillon. Works great.

Gee and it only took 12 posts. There ought to be a law

 

[RussellC]

The pin in your setup could have been cut too thin. This would not be the first time someone made a mistake in manufacture. Have you tried the other size pin in a different sized casing (7.62X51)? Did it work? That would be my thought to try next. They should send you another pin if any doubts. Mine works just like in the video posted. Measure a primer and your pin, the pin should be .001 or so smaller than the primer at best near the step. Mine is tapered by the looks of it. I will find my calipers and measure mine for you.

Much appreciated. This has become a mission for me now. By pin, you mean the part that goes into the pocket? Show a pic of where you are measuring, as will I do the same. That is a possibility. I have had too many knowledgeable folk tell me it works, and I'm not a complete idiot, and am normally a little more skillful with mechanical things...

Russellc

 

[FROGO207]

Seating one in a swaged casing might have a bit of a bump the first time but not noticeable as to provide an alarm or problem. The primers look the same as non swaged when installed. The next loading they do not feel different at all IMHO. I use an old style Lee Hand Primer tool.

 

[RussellC]

Gee and it only took 12 posts. There ought to be a law

Actually I mentioned it in post eleven, but I saw in another thread you ordered one of these things, or were going to? If you did, what is your secret to success with it? I am determined to make it work. Or did you decide to shuck it and go dillon?

Russellc

 

[FROGO207]

I measured the swaging tips on both the RCBS and CH4D. The spot I measured was where the straight wall started to flare out. The RCBS ones had a longer shaft before the taper by about .05.

RCBS
Small button .1703
Large button .2080

CH4D
small button .1704
Large button .2075

I figured you can measure your primers yourself.
Hope this helps you

 

[RussellC]

Not exactly sure where you are measuring, but if I put the "pinchers"in the little ridge under the swaging tip, I get a slightly larger number .173 so I guess it isnt too small. I have now adjusted it again and have 2 brass in a row that primers went into perfectly! Let see if I can keep it up......

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Ok, it appears I have this thing figured out. I knew it wasnt supposed to go very far into the primer pocket, basically once it barely contact it, just a little more is all. I have had about 15 in a row prime perfectly with no case rim deformation.
Thanks to all that provided info and suggestions, this place is the best reloading information source ever!

Much appreciated,

Russellc

 

[mtrmn]

I was beginning to believe you were gonna make me come over there....
Or you actually did have a defective swager.

Anyway glad you got it figured out. Maybe I didn't stress enough that you make very small adjustments at a time. And a tighter fit on the shell holder is better.
Only the rim of the primer pocket is crimped and needs swaging. Bottoming out will only destroy your brass-you have a huge amount of leverage with this setup.

Oh, in your other thread on headspace gages--again-SMALL adjustments of the die. Back it out no more than 1/8 turn at a time until you get it close. This is your COARSE adjustment.