Charles Daly Wants to Hear From You!

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asknigh7: Sorry, but our Lifetime Repair Policy is only on Charles Daly branded firearms. Having said that, do you need service on your FEG PMK-380? We should still have some parts on hand even though we haven't sold this model in a long time. Let me know and I'll try and help you out.

reddogIII: I sincerely apologize for the way you were treated. Regardless of the scenario involved with your repair, the manager should not have argued with you. (That manager is no longer with the company.) Having said that, I can tell you that it would not be the first time that we have performed service on a firearm only to find out that when it got back into the consumer's hands that it still did not function properly for the consumer. The consumer's reaction at this point is usually an accusation (as you stated in your post) that my service department "didn't do anything".

I can assure you that we never "do nothing" with any gun we service. All guns that pass through our gunsmiths hands are serviced and test fired before being returned to the consumer. More often than not, at this point in such a scenario, further investigation should have occurred, particularly into the cartridges that were being used. Our service department maintains an inventory of hundreds of different shotgun shell brands so that we can test with any load that a consumer says is not functioning in his shotgun. It is our policy to test fire with the consumer's brand wherever possible in order to try and replicate the problem. If we test fire without knowing the brand you were using, (and we usually test fire with several different brands), and we do not have a functional problem, the gun is deemed in working order and returned to the consumer. I do not know the specifics of the test firing of your shotgun but I can guarantee you that it left our facility in working condition.

Unfortunately, our Manager developed an attitude with you and that was wrong. This is where the process broke down. This is why we intend to improve the process and insure that this type of outcome does not happen again in our service department.

I can assure you the gun was not a "POS". The procedure was!

Dakotasin: See my earlier reply to Number 6 re: different barrels for our AR's. For your reference, all of our receivers are forged from 7075-T6 aluminum alloy, per mil-spec.

Buck Nekkid: I believe that Pietta's 1873 revolvers are every bit as good as Uberti's Cattleman, and in many cases, much better. Were you borrowing a Charles Daly revolver or a Liberty? FYI, they cannot be made at a significantly lower cost than Uberti and still maintain and semblance of reliability, safety and quality.

As far as Zastava firearms (pistols) are concerned, EAA is now importing what was our ZDA (CZ999). After this manufacturer screwed us royally with the Mauser rifles, we would never do business with them again with just this one pistol (Model 57). We should build up the market for Zastava for another product just so they can screw us again? (Also the reason we stopped sellling the ZDA.) No thank you. Perhaps EAA can help you on this one.

pete F: Sorry Pete, but we do not support Miroku Daly's. We do have some parts for Daly's that were made in Italy from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. Generally, we support Daly guns that were imported and sold by our company (KBI). KBI acquired Charles Daly in 1997. Our Liftime Repair Policy went into effect in September of 2001.

Hellion Productions: We are well familiar with the Australian AIA M-10 Enfield type rifles. They have visited us on several occassions. We could "seal the deal" on this one if we wanted to, but have hesitated to do so based on our uncertainty over the volume we could do with these rifles. They are very well made though!

That's it for tonight gang. More responses will come tomorrow evening.
 
Mr. Kassner, welcome to THR.

I have not owned any of your products. However, upon reading your opening message my first two thoughts were "Wow, I've been kinda getting the bug for a new gun, that kind of commitment is great, I should check out what they have!" my second thought was "Hey, that friend at work who is thinking about buying his first handgun, the guy who was an MP in army in the early 1980's and hence is attracted to the 1911, but wants a reasonably priced one, I should mention Charles Daly to him"

I think simply by engaging this community you can start to build a lot of good will.

Truth be told, before this, Charles Daly was a name I glossed over. When a different co-worker about 2 years ago told me his son bought him a new shotgun for christmas, a semi-auto Charles Daly, and said "I never heard of them, you know anything?" I replied "Oh they make okay stuff, it's got to be a lot better than that old Coast to Coast pump you had!" but my real though was "huh, nice of your kid to buy you a shotgun, but he must have gone for the cheapest semi-auto they had, he should have gotten something more reputable"

That is the attitude of most people I know. CD is simply Meh. Some people will always want a $1000 shotgun for $400, and rather than complain about actually paying $1000 to them a huge amount, they instead spend $400 an complain about it's shortcomings.

Your guns are what they are, at each grade level.

Still, in the area of customer service, I have had some bad experiences with other companies. See, this is how I look at it. However poor or excellent the fit and finish, I expect the gun to work. Due to laws, I cannot buy a gun, find out this particular specimine doesn't work, and then go exchange it for a different specimine. If I buy a $600 grill at Target, and that specimine has a flaw, I expect to be able to walk in and replace it RIGHT NOW. I am much more forgiving of service on a firearm I have had, or any item I have had for 10+ years, a lifetime warranty is great if I break an old gun. But my true anger and what will ruin a relationship between me and a manufacturer is how they handle a NEW gun that doesn't work right, be it convered under a one year warranty or a lifetime warranty.

See, when your new gun fails, as opposed to the grill, at best you are going to be looking at a 3-5 week period where you paid for an item and aren't able to use it. Plus, for me at least, it costs money to go play with my new toy, range fees, and ammo fees, and gas. Bringing your new gun to the range and having it fail basically ruins $20, add to that the hassle of shipping it back. Finally, once it is returned, it must be tested, hence that is a whole second range trip, not for fun, not for practice, not to incease your skills, but simply to test if the factory really fixed it right or not.'

If it is an old gun "Yep sir, well pay shipping both ways and fix it, it may take about a month" is great. But if it is a new gun it should be "I am so sorry sir. I am sorry you have to be out the use of the gun for so long. I am also sorry that this ruined your range trip, and I am sorry you had to drive way to the other side of town as the fedex shops in the stripmall won't accept firearms shipments, etc."

I'd like to see two things. I'd like to see some way (for example: including a dated receipt, a way to contact the seller so he can check his books etc) to determine if the gun is less than a year old. If a gun that is 'brand new' has problems, I think the manfuacturer (or importer) should send the guy a voucher for $20 in ammo or something along with an appology.

After all, pay $400 and get Item X now may be a good deal and you accept it, however pay $400 and get Item X a month from now, that is not acceptable. There has got to be a reason I am going to be seperated from my cash for that long before I actually get my product. In the case of 'preorders' hey that is fine, I am sacrificing access to my money to avoid the chance of supplies running out and not getting a copy right away, or having to spend more to pay 'scalper's prices'.

You just cannot believe the foul taste it leaves in my mouth when I bring a gun home and it has problems. I can't care less about a lifetime warranty (okay that is a lie, I prefer lifetime warranty to 1 year warranties) how I judge a company is how well it rights a wrong, and selling me defective merchandise is wrong. Most companies can set that wrong right by IMMEDIATELY replacing it. Gun companies can't. They must find some other way to make it right.
 
It is my opinion (as impractical as it may be) that EVERY SINGLE FIREARM should be TEST FIRED at the factory with typical store bought, off the shelf ammo. Not just two or three rounds, but 50. Not some fancy, special order Military/NATO spec ammo, but common store bought Walmart gun counter ammo... because THIS is where 99% of your gun customers are buying ammo.
This would quickly weed-out the problem guns before they ever get into the hands of the consumer.
Add the cost of a box of ammo to the cost of the new gun.
I'd GLADLY pay the extra $30 to know the $600 gun I'm buying will at least get thru a box of ammo without jamming.

Like was already mentioned, the internet has tipped the playing field BIGTIME.
There are no more secrets or isolated incidents.

One pi$$ed-off gun owner with a bad "new gun experience" can alienate hundreds, maybe thousands of potential gun buyers.

What does the average consumer sometimes do before committing to a purchase ?

They search the internet.

If they Google "Charles Daly" and find a few forums with complaints related to your firearms, guess what ? You just lost his business for life.... along with a bunch of other internet saavy consumers that Googled the same thing.

Try it for yourself... and see what the gun buyer sees. ;)

Also, I think it was a wise move, getting into the AR15 market.

In my opinion, there are two groups of gun owners.

There are:

A) Shooters/enthusiasts... who look at guns as fun... a toy, a hobby. They tend to buy/sell/rotate guns often. They spend money on new guns like wives buy new shoes.

B) Hunters... Who look at guns as tools. Tools that need sharpening once a year at the local sportsman's club. Tools they own for life... like the set of Craftsmen wrenches you inherited when your Dad passed away. They never go bad and they never grow bored with these tools.


As currently saturated as the AR15 market is, people are still buying them like shoes and buying them often.

I think you are heading in the right direction.
 
Service like this is HUGE to me. Thank you, excellent work. Though I don't have a CD, I am in the market for a 1911 and will be putting CD on top of the list. I would like the front serrations to go away on the full size though. End of '08? It's going to be hard to wait... :)
Oh, and since I live in Vegas, I'll be seeing you at SHOT hopefully.
 
Michael, great to see you doing this.

It's also interesting to see you coming out with an AR15. I would encourage you (in your free time :) ) to go read this thread: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
You can see what some discriminating users are looking for. It might help you tailor your marketing material a bit. (and your product choices as well)


Also, I would suggest that if you're not familiar with the concept of an internet forum "group buy", that you check out the group buy forum in the "trading post" section. A group buy deal on your upcoming AR15 might be a heckuva way to kick off such a product and leverage the momentum you've built in this thread.
 
I know others are in line but I had to respond to this post before going to bed!

I have spent a lot of time lurking and studying on M4carbine.net and ar15.com. I am well familiar with the chart and where we expect to fall on it (between Noveske and S&W I think) with our D-M4LE. Grant and I have corresponded and I will be getting this model to him for T&E as soon as they are available (early February, right after SHOT)!

I will study the GB suggestion and see what we can put together. Sounds like a great idea!
 
Also, I failed to mention in my two previous replies.

AR15.com is a HUGE website that can make or break a company. Use it to your advantage as well.

They single-handedly ran Jim Zumbo's career (with Outdoor Life magazine) into the ground after he demonized the beloved AR15.

Also, the "Employment" tab on your website does not function. ;)
 
Mr. Kassnar,

I have no experience with Charles Daly firearms and so have no complaints. However I would like to commend you for resurrecting the idea that quality and customer service are KING. In by-gone days this is what sold products. Hopefully you will be setting a new trend. :)
 
I think the Group Buy would be a great idea!

Some things I would think could do well:
9mm carbine or rifle that takes "common" mags (ie; Beretta 92 or Glock),
a 10mm pistol, hard core following for the cal but not many guns available,
as mentioned 7.62-25 pistol or a carbine that would take the Russian drum mags that are out now:evil:

I also think a great opportunity would be to do a Hk 91 clone, tons of mags out there now and few new rifles for them.

Also, a PC rifle in .223 that took AR mags could be a good selling.

I checked your website and was glad to see that you still had HP's for sale and that CDNN is running a good sale on them now! An all metal pistol for that price that takes mags I already have is hard to beat! Maybe more options on that pistol would do well, two-tone, stainless, etc. You already have it going so adding to it shouldn't be that bad.
 
I will study the GB suggestion and see what we can put together. Sounds like a great idea!
Click to expand...

if I could be a bit more specific about the formula for success:

great price + unique product

usually, "unique product" means some special run where you engrave something like "The High Road" or "Molon Labe" on the side of the magwell, or offer the rifle with a feature or in a color not normally available from the factory (hint: multicam)

I'm not sure about the finance rules, but doing something like a "Ron Paul Revolution" logo on the side of the magwell and donating a portion of the proceeds might spice up life around here.

I'm just sayin'


(and yes, I know putting 'revolution' on the side of an evil black rifle is likely to get us on the evening news...)
 
Mr. Kassnar,

Around the middle of Sept 07, I sent my week old 9mm ZDA back to CD after speaking with "Brad" for warranty repair of a very serious trigger issue that can be seen here:

http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc257/JF1966/?action=view&current=ea9b0882.flv

http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc257/JF1966/?action=view&current=9333d7e5.flv

Notice the hammer does not fall after the very loud clunk?

These video's were sent on a disk along with a very clear and concise description of the problem with the pistol in order to get the best possible repair. Gun came back saying that no problem could be found, and that was it. Gun continued to do the exact same thing, and on top of that, one of the levers was scuffed during its stay at CD. I faxed your department telling them about the non-fixed issue, and the scuff, and as of today months later have heard nothing.

I was lucky that I could return the pistol, and ended up paying $50 to ship it back to the dealer for refund all because of poor repairs and poor service on the part of CD. I liked the pistol a lot, and really wanted to keep it. I was offered another in exchange but there was no way after what I experienced. Lifetime warranty was the main reason I took a chance with this pistol, and look what it got me? How valuable is a lifetime warranty where only on paper it seems valid? I'm still ticked that I am out $50 for issues out of my control by just being a customer, and how I was treated.

Few other thoughts:

How is it that other than magazines, I was told that there are no parts available for a pistol (ZDA) that was introduced two years earlier? I like to maintain my guns, and not having even the most basic maintenance parts is not good. Heck, you can order almost every part aside from the frame for a 92/96 Beretta online right from the Beretta site. Poor parts support is one of the reasons why many people, myself included shy away from anything but main stream brands.

I really wish the CD practice of using the gun as a CD billboard would stop. In my opinion it looks bad, and greatly detracts from the gun.

I do commend you for using a prepaid shipping label for warranty service.

The lack of an active email address in today's world is unacceptable IMO.

If you like Mr. Kassnar, I can email/PM you documents pertinent to my ZDA experience in the hopes that they will help improve CD... Who knows, if a marked change happens at CD, I may once again be a customer.

Thank you,
 
on a totally unrelated note: you don't have any plans to sell your company to Cerberus, eh?


if you do, can you at least get them to put you in charge of customer service?
 
Mr. Kassner. First let me say I appreciate your support of your products. It is nice to see someone interested in the product they sell. Any mechanical assembly can have problems and will need to be serviced, repaired, or sometimes replaced. The consumer has been spoiled by the no questions asked returns and replacement policies of the large companies. I do believe that when a product is returned for a problem it should be fixed or replaced the first time. If repairs are done they should be tested thoroughly before they are returned to the purchaser. Problem guns could be refurbished and resold as such. Thats my $0.02 worth on that subject.

Now here is my wish list;

The Zastava Model 57 LUX in 7.62 X 25 mentioned earlier in the thread. I have seen this requested in CZFORUM.COM in the CZ52/curio&relic section. I would also be interested in a 38 Super/9 X 23 version. Also a reliable compact version similar to a CZ Rami for concealed carry.

In the same vein a gas operated 7.62 X 25 upper for the AR-15 platform.

A durable and reliable 10mm Auto pistol platform. There is constant interest in the 10mmtalk.com forumns.

Thank you!
 
Mr Kassner, Welcome to the group, i am fairly new here also, just wanted to let you know that i bought one of your CD High powers and i think that this is a very good gun, i am very impressed with it, it is nice to know that if i ever have a problem with it i am sure it will be handled profesionally. Len
 
That looks like just the gun I want. It's more attractive than the mossberg and lighter too. Even takes choke tubes. Now I just have to find someone to order it.
 
Reply to Charles Daly

Mr. Kassner;
I am looking forward to your PM. I REALLY like the CD 1911 ECS!!!! The weight is right and, as I said it groups beautifully. It is a fine product and all of them I have seen at the gun shop, Rocky Mtn. Discount Sports in Riverton, Wy. have been well polished and the fit and finish have been as good as any of the S&W firearms that I have seen in the past few years.
I have an occasional stovepipe or failure to feed but, I think that is just magazine problems. I have several magazines other than the two that came with the gun, so there are some differences. Actually, when I get back to you after your PM I also need to find out what your mags cost, I might want to get a few more. They seem to feed reliably.
Kudos to you and Charles Daly for listening to the complaints as well as the good things. It's too bad more manufacturers/importers/wholesalers/retailers don't do the same. I think that if they did, products, services and sales would be much better. Thanks again!!
MS
 
Your shotguns seem to be "feild grade" at best. Why not try a nicer shotgun with some quality wood, and go head-to head with remington? I am a manager for the big seller of your shotguns, and I find that your shotguns hamper with your reputation for your pistols. A little more craftsmanship is worth the price.
 
Dear Sir,
Welcome to the board. I have owned in the past a pistol imported by you company and was very well served.
A previous post asked about a "non sporting type" shotgun and you replied that it could only have 5 rds max. Could you make your shotgun to be able to use tube extensions from say a 870 or mossy? And if it could use replacment stocks I would say sign me up.
Thanks Russ
 
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Mr. Kassnar,
Welcome to THR! I respect your efforts to better CD's customer service and relations. Although I have never owned any of your products, I've handled a few whenever I come across them. I also considered buying the HP model. With the reassurance your posts have given me, I will probably get one soon!
 
I have one problem only with the majority of Charles Daly handguns I have seen lately. Billboard sized rollmarks. I have "not" purchased several of your products due to the (in my opinion) overly large rollmarks. My pet peeve and my problem BUT it has cost you at least two sales and quite possibly my issue has cost me some intimate time with a quality firearm. Que sera sera.
 
CD

Simmons Gun Repair is the largest firearm repair shop not owned by a firearms maker.
We also sell new and used firearms and Charles Daily is one of our best sellers.
In the past 2 or 3 years i have only had 2 field model 12 gauge shotguns that had to go back to CD because of damage not repairable by us.
The locking block issue has been worked out and the firing pins are much better now, overall the guns have evolved into good working shotguns.
3 of us own CD shotguns and have used them for duck and goose hunting for years, that said they have gone through some bad conditions and rough hunting without an issue.
Having a chance to let you know what i think is good, everybody having a chance to let you know what they think is priceless, good move on your part.
We can also help you build one or two new gun lines if you need it.


Thank you, Paul Salchow, VPR&D Simmons.
 
Charles Daly
Hi I just have a few thoughts for you............
Let me start by saying this is a huge plus in my book for you to come out and talk with the public on a semi individual basis it goes really far for me.
I have not read this whole thread so if this is a repeat I am sorry. I think the bulk of the problem with the entire CD line up is that some of the early 1911 pistols were of poor craftsmanship. I personaly have seen 2 diffrent early production pistols that had multiple problems ranging to improperly adjusted extractor to unmatched barrel to feed ramp and some finishing issues. All of which were easily fixed. However with 2 out of 5 that came through the shop like that I can only assume that others had the same issues.
With poor construction like that the word quickly spred that CD is junk. Then rumors start to fly and things snowball. Lately the 1911 line up has been great I have only seen 1 that had some issues but the problems were most likely owner abuse. I have read that the 1911 line up is now being done by RIA/Armscor I own an RIA and it is great I have never had a problem so I beleive the new productions guns will be fine.
So with a rough begening it is difficult to change a reputation however through consistant good manufacturing I think you will be ok. I thank you for your low prices and quality guns but I wish I could find more information on your sharps line up.
Thanks for your time.
 
I don't have any CD products, but I am glad to see a factory rep eager to engage the community, and I commend you for it.
Click to expand...
Agreed.I think doing this says A LOT for your company and how you feel about your customers.ts very refeshing and encouraging to see a company doing this.Also, I think you made a VERY wise decision to utilize gun forums to get your input.Definitely a great way to hear from from LOTS of "average Joe" customers.
 
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