Charter Arms "upgrading" the 9mm PITBULL

[C0untZer0]

From Charter Arms Facebook page:

Please be aware we are in the process of redesigning our 9mm PITBULL. Our new design will now be a 5 shot. This decision was made to greatly improve extraction and to bring the 9mm design closer to that of the rest of the PITBULL family of products. This process will take approximately 4-6 weeks with shipments of the New and Improved version starting in July-August.
If you are a current owner of a 9mm PITBULL and would prefer the 5 shot version, please feel free to send your 9mm PITBULL in for a free upgrade starting in August.

 

[weblance]

I shot my 9mm Pitbull this past weekend. Critical Defense casings stuck badly, but brass casings ejected much easier. They were a little sticky, but not a real problem. I wont be sending mine in for a round reduction. A 6 round capacity was one of the reasons I bought mine. I wonder what the problem is. My 6 shot Police Undercover 38 ejects nicely.

 

[.455_Hunter]

So its now a 5-shot 9mm built on a 5-shot .44 platform?

If you look into the records, the original 9mm Pitbull using the rimmed 9mm Federal round was the same thing.

Not much progress...

 

[weblance]

It will be a 5 shot 9mm, just like all the other 9mm revolvers, built on a frame just slightly bigger than a J Frame. Its not like its on a Super Redhawk frame.

Progress is that its currently the only option for a Moon Clip free 9mm revolver. Thats a big deal to some.

I dont see the 9mm Pitbull as anything but a last ditch backup. That was the original intent anyway, as a backup companion to a similar caliber autoloader for Law Enforcement. Since there are no speedloaders available, and because of the spring loaded engagement system, no real way to quick load it, its a 6 shot last ditch. The extraction isnt that bad, with brass casings. Its a little sticky, but you have the springs pushing the casings against the side walls of the cylinder. Im sure it could be made better with some chamber polishing, but mine is working fine as far as Im concerned. I'll keep mine a 6 shot, thank you.

 

[chicharrones]

Does Charter Arms make a 6 shot in 9mm that takes moon clips? I don't see an advantage to rolling back to 5 shots if the frame size doesn't get smaller too.

 

[RealGun]

I have already sent my Pitbull back twice, once for inaccuracy, getting it back with a new design ejector; and again because they didn't consult with me the first time, understanding that the barrel needed to be replaced. The second time it came back with a barrel change, but the ejector upgrade was gone. It all didn't sit well, but they did make the gun whole, and it shoots okay. It's just another one of my quality-by-rework adoption guns. It is hard to bond with and take pride in a gun that was not right out of the box. The gun just sits in the safe. Looks like it might become relatively valuable as a six shooter that works.

 

[Damon555]

My Pitbull 9mm ejects the cases perfectly and is as accurate as I ever expected it to be.....I'll not be sending it back.

 

[Monac]

If the new Pitbull 9mm is a 5-shot, and you can get a 5-shot Pitbull 40 S&W, as well as the 5-shot Bulldog 44 Special and (I assume) a 5-shot 357 Magnum, won't the Pitbull 9mm be almost completely pointless?

 

[weblance]

Charter does not make any moon clip rimless revolvers.

The beauty of a 9mm revolver is the ammo cost, and availability. It offers power levels higher than 38+p, at a much lower cost. Standard 38 Special ammo is $16-$18/50, 9mm is $11/50. For a shooter who doesnt reload, its a big savings.

Again... Charters original intention for their rimless revolver offerings, were as a backup for Law Enforcement, in the same caliber as a duty pistol, so two different ammo types didnt have to be carried.

 

[C0untZer0]

If they make the cylinder smaller doesn't that create a larger gap at the bottom of the cylinder window?

That's gonna look kinda wierd

 

[beag_nut]

I have a CA Mag Pug, in .357 mag. (I haven't looked at it in such a while). It is a POS. It is waiting for the next local "turn-in-guns, buy back" program, because it is totally unreliable, and I don't want someone to have it who might depend on it (and it only has 500 rounds thru it). NOTHING CA can do would garner any enthusiasm from me. The fact that they are admitting a significant problem with their 9mm is, besides surprising, also long overdue.

 

[RealGun]

I have a CA Mag Pug, in .357 mag. (I haven't looked at it in such a while). It is a POS. It is waiting for the next local "turn-in-guns, buy back" program, because it is totally unreliable, and I don't want someone to have it who might depend on it (and it only has 500 rounds thru it). NOTHING CA can do would garner any enthusiasm from me. The fact that they are admitting a significant problem with their 9mm is, besides surprising, also long overdue.

Okay, but have you allowed CA a chance to make it right?

 

[weblance]

If they make the cylinder smaller doesn't that create a larger gap at the bottom of the cylinder window?

Since they are retro-fitting the older 6 shot revolvers with a 5 shot cylinder, the new cylinder will be the same diameter as the old one, simply a 5 shot. I seriously doubt the revolver is getting a redesign, and going to use the smaller frame, or smaller cylinder.

I have a CA Mag Pug, in .357 mag. (I haven't looked at it in such a while). It is a POS. It is waiting for the next local "turn-in-guns, buy back" program, because it is totally unreliable, and I don't want someone to have it who might depend on it (and it only has 500 rounds thru it). NOTHING CA can do would garner any enthusiasm from me. The fact that they are admitting a significant problem with their 9mm is, besides surprising, also long overdue.

Gee... that was helpful...

 

[C0untZer0]

So they are increasing the weight of the revolver by however much one chamber's worth of steel weighs.

I'm betting that the only way they are making extraction easier is by having one less round to extract. It obviously takes less force to extract 5 rounds than 6 right?

I'm going to the range tomorrow, I'm going to try to determine if there is a difference in POI between 115gr, 124gr and 147gr out of the PITBULL, and I'm also going to keep track of extraction. My last time out to the range I tried Aluminum Federal for the heck of it and the aluminum REALLY stuck in the chambers. Not only that but the chambers were filthy after firing the Federal Aluminum and IIRC the next cylinder of brass stuck also.

 

[Zendude]

By its nature, a rimless cartridge in a revolver is always going to be tricky to eject with the same reliability as a rimmed cartridge. The attempt Charter is making to increase reliability shows that there is a demand for this product and that Charter is making a very serious attempt to make a good one. I have a Charter (not 9mm) and it has been the most trouble free gun i have owned.

 

[C0untZer0]

My PITBULL locked up with a broken transfer bar before 150 rounds through it

To their credit Charter made the return hassle-free and they got it back to me in about a week.

 

[wally]

My PITBULL locked up with a broken transfer bar before 150 rounds through it

To their credit Charter made the return hassle-free and they got it back to me in about a week.

I had problems with the ejector and the gun locked up with loaded rounds in the cylinder. Disassembling it to remove the rounds I lost the little spring from the opening latch.

Contacted Charter by Email they replied with a pre-paid shipping label and I had the gun back in 7 days. Everything was fixed. Great service.

Today's Charter Arms is not the same as developed the bad reputation. I believe the original owners have regained control of the company and are doing what it takes to make things right.

S&W had some really bad guns and services and revolving door management during the Clinton years, they certainly have turned things around, I hope Charter can do the same!

Since my Pitbull is working fine, I'm not sure if I'll bother with the exchange or not, I'll watch for other reports before deciding.

 

[.455_Hunter]

S&W had some really bad guns and services and revolving door management during the Clinton years

Interesting. I consider the mid to late '90s to be a high water mark for S&W quality. Much better than current production. To each there own...

 

[wally]

Interesting. I consider the mid to late '90s to be a high water mark for S&W quality. Much better than current production. To each there own...

You got in just before the "sell out" and management nearly destroyed the company. But I still think the earlier guns were even better. What they are making now is still pretty good if you can get by the stupid locks built in.

From Wikipedia: (Google "S&W Clinton deal")

In 2000 the Clinton administration reached an agreement with Smith & Wesson, to end federal and state lawsuits, in exchange for marketing and design changes by the company. Some of the items Smith & Wesson agreed to were; to sell guns with locks, to build the locks in the weapons within two years, implement smart gun technology, and take ballistic fingerprints of its guns.[15] Clinton called the deal a "major victory for America's families."[15] The NRA and other gun rights groups heavily criticized the settlement calling Smith & Wesson's actions "a sell-out",[16] with the NRA calling the agreement ""tantamount to back door blackmail".[15] Smith & Wesson's ownership changed in 2001 and the agreement fell apart after George W. Bush came to office and supported lawsuit protection for gun manufactures.[17] However, Smith & Wesson continues to sell guns with internal locks.

I shot my 9mm Pitbull this past weekend. Critical Defense casings stuck badly, but brass casings ejected much easier. They were a little sticky, but not a real problem. I wont be sending mine in for a round reduction. A 6 round capacity was one of the reasons I bought mine. I wonder what the problem is.

I think the main issue is ejecting loaded rounds, five pop right out but the sixth tends to hang on the grips and can easily slip back into the cylinder. Not noticing and trying to force it closed might be causing damage, or it may slip back under the star leaving a round in the gun one might now mistakenly assume is unloaded -- what they say about assume and you and me applies here!

OTOH if the "upgrade" lets steel cased ammo extract nicely I'd probably send mine in, as for some reason that I've so far not figured out, I get a mis-fire rate with my reloads (which are fine in very many other guns) that is high enough to ruin the fun, so I generally shoot factory ammo in it.

 

[Zendude]

OTOH if the "upgrade" lets steel cased ammo extract nicely I'd probably send mine in, as for some reason that I've so far not figured out, I get a mis-fire rate with my reloads (which are fine in very many other guns) that is high enough to ruin the fun, so I generally shoot factory ammo in it.

One of my revolvers had frequent misfires with my reloads. I switched primers to Federal and have not had one misfire with them. Others have told me that CCI and Winchester primers are pretty hard and that Federal is softer. Seems to be true based on my experience.