Cheap Semis - Saiga 5.56/7.62, SKS, etc?

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breeze010

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Currently I have several bolt and semi rimfires (17hmr and 22lr) but the only centerfire rifle is a Ruger M77 in .270. The 270 covers any hunting needs I will ever have but is not exactly a pleasure to shoot at the range. More than anything this will simply be a "fun" gun so I want a semi auto with a little more power and some aftermarket to waste more time/money.

Whatever the gun, the vast majority of rounds put through it will be at a range plinking at targets 100yds or less...I'm definitely not concerned with anything over 200yds. I will probably take some coyotes with it and also deer if it's a 7.62x39. Depending on what I end up with I could also see it being used as a bush/truck/SHTF rifle. I'm on a tight budget and would like to spend around $300 on the gun, maximum of $400. I'll be shopping around at the next gun show and also the LGS so if I stumbled across the right used gun I would also consider it. From the research I've done this basically limits me to a Saiga (223 or 7.62x39) or an SKS. Right now I'm leaning heavily towards the Saiga but can't decide between the 7.62x39 or 223.

I don't reload. Ammo prices seem similar between the two with 223 having an edge in availability. I would end up ordering most of my 7.62x39 online for bulk pricing but could still stop by any local shop and grab a box in a pinch. The 223 shoots flatter (moot point for me), is better suited for varmints/coyotes/etc and has less recoil. I'm a little recoil sensitive :)rolleyes:) and hope an intermediate caliber will allow me to gradually become more comfortable with the real high power calibers. Both calibers can legally take deer here but would not feel comfortable using the 223.

Right now the Saiga in 7.62x39 is winning out but I'm still open to suggestions. Seems the 7.62x39 can do anything the 223 can at the ranges I'm interested in but also gives me the option to use it deer hunting and makes a better defensive (but not idea) round vs black bears and wild hogs. Also seems to me that getting an AK variant in 7.62x39 and then an AR in 5.56 later on is just the "right" thing to do. :D If anyone is still reading this novel I would appreciate any insight between the two calibers or suggestions which way to go in regards to calibers or specific models. I also considered a 9mm carbine (sub2000 or similar) to share ammo with my pistol but decided I wanted something I could also hunt with....not to mention bulk 7.62x39 is barely (if at all) more expensive than 9mm.
 
With those constraints I would go with the Saiga in 762x39. You can always add a compensator to it to tame it down to feel like a 223. Of course with the Saiga you can do a conversion and get it to be really sweet while still maintaining its hunting abilities.
 
One of my buddies bought a 7.62x39 Saiga at J&G for $300. With another $200 in parts (to convert it back to proper pistol grip form) it is one of the nicest shooting AK pattern rifles I've ever shot.

For that same price you could build a Palmetto Armory AR-15. Not sure which is better.

I find that both rounds really have little to no recoil and don't need muzzle devices unless you really want them.

A 9mm PCC would be a fun toy and good for HD (as would 5.56 or 7.62) but that's about it. You would be giving up a lot of range and usefulness.
 
It would be hard to beat one of those 7.62x39 Saigas for the price. At one time, I would have recommended an SKS, but most of those are almost as expensive as a NEW Saiga.
 
I just got the Saiga 7.62x39 from J&G Sales a couple of months ago. So far, it has been great with the cheap Euro Mill-surp ammo. The only down side is that the mags are expensive $25/$30 a piece. But a $20 bullet guide and a little Dremil work on the mag release and they will use the AK47 mags for $10/$15 each. OR.. as I did, I got the AK mags and monified them to work in the Saiga.
 
Twiki357 said:
I just got the Saiga 7.62x39 from J&G Sales a couple of months ago. So far, it has been great with the cheap Euro Mill-surp ammo. The only down side is that the mags are expensive $25/$30 a piece. But a $20 bullet guide and a little Dremil work on the mag release and they will use the AK47 mags for $10/$15 each. OR.. as I did, I got the AK mags and monified them to work in the Saiga.
Click to expand...

I hope you are keeping 922r compliance in mind...

OP, I would say that it looks like a Saiga in 7.62x39 is what you're looking for. I don't personally own one, but my home-built Romanian AK-47 has been a lot of fun. You definitely won't be disappointed.
 
Breeze, I have a Saiga in 7.62x39. Really the only thing I can say about it is I think I need to order some more ammo for it soon :D. Its actually a pretty sweet shooting rifle: I took it to the range last week, and was able to hit clay pigeons that I put on a burm about 120-150 yards away.

There's plenty of threads on the conversion, and some good videos. If I have time tomorrow, I'll see if I can find a link to the video that I used as a guide for my conversion.

as far as recoil goes, when I wear a heavy jacket and lean into the gun, I don't really notice it too much.

After you do the conversion, mags are pretty cheap: around $15-18, and converting the gun (once its 922R compliant) to run the Tapco 30rd mags isn't hard at all.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
 
Looks like the 7.62x39 is winning so far. I agree with most sentiments in this thread, although I mentioned it I had mostly ruled the SKS out since they are just as expensive as a Saiga (as stated).

As far as conversions go, I plan on keeping it stock for now. I may end up doing a conversion later for high cap mags and 922r compliance but the 10 rounders will be fine until then. I guess after gun ($300) and conversion (~$200) I am creeping into the extreme low end of ARs but I can assemble everything for the conversion over time. Plus, I can be plinking away the whole time instead of saving up money. :D

I believe I had made up my mind before the post just wanted to hear if anyone had a different opinion. I'll be scoping out the local gun show in a few weeks for cheap Saigas but I wouldn't be opposed to a used gun in good condition. If anyone has some suggestions to keep an eye out for in the $300-400 (used) range I would appreciate it.
 
The downside to not converting the Saiga is the trigger. In the "sporter" configuration, it has this funcky transfer bar mechanism because the hammer stays in place but the trigger is moved farther back. If you convert to the AK-style grip, you can install a standard AK trigger and it lightens the pull significantly. An unconverted Saiga has one of the ugliest trigger pulls I've ever experienced but my Saiga AK is a sweet rifle!

http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/saiga.html
 
SKS s are hard to beat. SImple and robust. No fumbling of mags and what not. They are the way to go. Chicom , Russ, Yugo and Romanian they all go work fine.
 
I know its more than you'd like to spend but I've been pining after one of these.
RAKCLASSIC2.jpg


I dont know what finished is used on this Saiga but its beautiful. :what:
Atlantic also has unconverted Saigas for $349.
Do you guys know if memebers of this forum get discounts from online shops?
 
If you want to have some fun, Buy a stripped lower for an AR-15 (in 5.56 or .223), then build your gun the way you want it. you will spend a little bit more money, but can learn a bit about guns, and can make the purchase in stages.
There is a ton of aftermarket stuff out there for the black guns, and ammo is cheap.
 
Get the Saiga in 7.62x39. You'll have the option of turning it into an AK but for sure, shoot it for a while before doing so. The stock version with a sling is very convenient to carry around in the field and you probably won't need anything more than the 10 round mag in the gun plus a spare 10 round mag in your pocket for a whole day of hunting. No need for big 30 round banana mags weighing you down.

My Saiga trigger has somehow turned into a 2 stage trigger. As I squeeze the trigger, I feel a resistive slide, then a definite stop, from there I know the break will drop the hammer and I get a very good feeling of the trigger break.

As for shooting, I know it's not a target rifle and I treat it that way. Honest 3" groups at 100 yards using the cheapest Wolf/Brown Bear/Tula I can find with the stock open sights. If I mounted a scope and put it on a bench rest, I'm sure it would do better, but why bother? From a standing position, I can keep all bullets on a 5"x7" index card at 100 yards and that ought to be good enough for most varmints. At less than 50 yards, soda cans and clay pigeons don't stand a chance.

Remember, a full up AK conversion will probably weigh more than the stock Saiga and that will affect carrying it all day long as well as your aim on a standing shot.

I've done comparisons on recoil between my Saiga and 20" AR and the Saiga recoils slightly more, but unless you compare one right after the other, you'll hardly notice the difference. It's nothing like a bolt action .308 or a Mosin Nagant 91/30.
 
Hey Atlantic... I just got my Saiga .308 from you a couple days ago... finished converting it and have to wait until Wed to break it in.... I was about to start swearing at you when I tried to put the bolt and carrier back in after I finished converting it... then I found out they must be aligned absolutly PERFECTLY before they will fit back together.... NOT like a standard AK which has much more tolerance... Greg from Carolina Shooters said HE has problems with them too so, I don't feel bad now... wish I would have know that before hand before I thought either it or I was defective at putting it back together... anyways... thanks for flawless transaction and FREE SHIPPING and I look forward to my next AK! Johnny
 
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i would highly consider the current offerings from the cugir factory the wasr 1063, at $429 and if you shop around could be had for cheaper. this is to reply to you wanting an ak and ar15 later on. currently imported wasr 1063 are as close to owning a true type akm rifle in the U.S no other country to this date imports them close to a true type akm style rifle not even the saigas/russia. this rifle is ready to shoot and has a side mount for any type of optic you want to use.
 
A_Matthew said:
I hope you are keeping 922r compliance in mind...

OP, I would say that it looks like a Saiga in 7.62x39 is what you're looking for. I don't personally own one, but my home-built Romanian AK-47 has been a lot of fun. You definitely won't be disappointed.
Click to expand...
If you buy a saiga, keep it in compliance.

As far as what to buy. Here is my two cents worth. I purchase a Saiga 16 inch barrel and love it. The recoil is minimal. As far as mags go, you can go to one of the AK/saiga forums and pick up used saiga mags pretty reasonable or buy some after marked mags. I picked up 6 original ten round mags for $40 shipped.

I like shooting 223's but I will use my Saiga for deer hunting once in awhile by cutting the mag capacity down to 5 with a block.

My Saiga is a great shooting rifle.

bigdog
 
align it up PERFECTLY! it took over 30 minutes of trying... I was thinking which gunsmith to take it to and it finally went it... I just got over 500 rounds of brown bear .308 delivered today by UPS... I'm sure going thru all that ammo will loosen things up a bit... but I treated all the guts with Froglube and don't plan on taking the bolt or carrier out for a long time!
 
I think you have some ideas that are not based in reality.

Defense against wild hogs? 7.62x39 not ideal for hogs? - I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think you have unrealistic ideas of what wild hogs are like as well as the kind of damage an intermediate cartridge will do.

"I don't reload". - Again, with how cheap reloading setups have become, why the heck not? Lee classic loaders are $25 per caliber (they make them for 223 and your 270), or $30 for a general purpose hand press that uses any standard dies. With Lee loaders, you can load just a few rounds at a time, so you only need 5 minutes (no exaggeration) to load up a couple of rounds - and the design itself keeps you from mixing up most components. It is laughably cheap, stupid simple, and takes very little time.

I would also like to know where you are finding Saigas for "Cheap"? They are $700 - $800 everywhere I see.
 
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