Hokkmike
Member
There is no better syrplus rifle on the market than the M-38 or M-96 in 6.5 X 55. They were built by people who had concerns with quality. They are accurate and most all of them in great condition.
Cheaper Surplus Rifles...Which for me?
- Thread starter Dynasty
- Start date
- Status
alucard0822
Member
mosins are fun, reliable, and ammo still has good availability even if the price is going up. They all kick, and they all hurt after 20+rounds, but we are sissies compared to the Russians some 65 years ago that carried them into battle, firing hundreds of rounds, stopping only to die
I have finally got to try a K31, and do have to say it is amazingly accurate, ammo availability is getting better, not worse, and the straight pull earns extra cool points.
But the one that piqued my curiosity the most, chambered in 308win, and looks like loads of fun (12rd mag in a bolt gun), is the enfield carbine http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Enfield_2A_.308_NATO_Carbine.html
I reload, so this one would definitely have the best ammo availability, I have shot a no5 jungle carbine in .303 before, and loved it, my favorite milsurp rifle short of an M1 garand. This one adds more capacity, probably the most plentiful ammo around, and $300 less to the price tag.
Thanks a lot, I think I am about to be $230 poorer.
I have finally got to try a K31, and do have to say it is amazingly accurate, ammo availability is getting better, not worse, and the straight pull earns extra cool points.
But the one that piqued my curiosity the most, chambered in 308win, and looks like loads of fun (12rd mag in a bolt gun), is the enfield carbine http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Enfield_2A_.308_NATO_Carbine.html
I reload, so this one would definitely have the best ammo availability, I have shot a no5 jungle carbine in .303 before, and loved it, my favorite milsurp rifle short of an M1 garand. This one adds more capacity, probably the most plentiful ammo around, and $300 less to the price tag.
Thanks a lot, I think I am about to be $230 poorer.
minutemen1776
Member
I recently tortured over this same decision--which milsurp to buy? I thought about the Mosin-Nagant M38, as I like the carbine length and liked that it would be a WWII rifle. Reports of poor, shot-out bores deterred me, so I opted for a laminated M44, hoping that maybe I'd score one made in 1944-45. The one I received (from Aim Surplus) was made in 1948, which initially disappointed me, but all that was made up by the condition of the rifle. Simply put, this M44 is in the best condition of any milsurp I've ever seen, even the unissued Yugo SKS I bought a couple of years ago. The bore is absolutely pristine with no counterbore and no indication it's ever been shot at all. The finish of the metal and the wood are the same. So, now I'm very pleased.
Will Learn
Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2006
- Messages
- 481
K31 +1!!!!!!!!!
SShooterZ
Member
For milsurp, I much prefer a Mauser over any of the Mosin options. Seems to be a better shooter and a little easier on the recoil. Ammo is still pretty cheap to and there's a ton of options out there if you want to "accurize" it at all.
Might have to look into one of those K-31s too.
Might have to look into one of those K-31s too.
Davo
Member
For a plinker think M91/30, SKS, or Mauser.
I have a M38 carbine and a 91/30. The 91/30 is by far the more accurate. I can keep groups on a 3" Post-It note at 100 yards. A Limbsaver on it allows me to shoot 60 rounds at a sitting with no ill effects. As cheap as these things are, get one of each and judge for yourself. My only concern is that 54R seems to be a little tougher to find lately. Stock up when you can.
doc2rn
Member
Too many to choose from but I would go with cheapest for plinking like 7.62x39 and .22 as well as 6.5x50, since it is offerred commercially now thanks to Hornady (not that it is cheap). Some 7.62x54r remains but is getting harder to find good deals on. I prefer 7mm myself.
Mosin for "plinking"
Is still about as cheap as it gets if you're talking about "plinking" with a full-power rifle. Locally, Czech silvertip is 5-6 bucks a box, and bulk surplus is still around $0.10 / round. Selection isn't what it was a year ago, bt there's always something available. It's all corrosive, and accuracy can vary widely (true of the guns as well.) Given the cost of 7.62x54R reloadable brass, rifle bullets, and the amount of powder per load, you still can't reload for the Mosin cheaper than suplus ammo. Commercial ammo is available, around $21 / box where I buy it (Big 5).
Recoil from my M44 is stiff, to say the least. A $15 butler creek slip-on pad helped a lot, both by providing some protection from the great-for-bashing-in-Nazi-skulls steel buttplate, and for adding some length of pull to a stock that seems not to fit any known member of Homo Sapiens. Really, the "ergonomics" of the Mosin stock are so awful that it's hard to believe that it was an accident. Anything that sucks that bad has to have been designed that way on purpose.
Standing, I can shoot 60-80 rounds in a session, after owning the rifle for a year or so. From the bench, it's more like a box. When I first shot it from the bench, one magazine-full and I was done. You get used to it, and you learn to shoot it the "right" way. You'll know immediately if you're doing it wrong. "Wrong" is determined by the rifle, not by you!! There's something so basically Russian about that, it's almost part of their charm.
Reliability is legendary. The entire action has 5 moving parts. Trigger, sear/spring/striker block, bolt body, bolt head, magazine follower. When you take it apart, it's obvious that the #1 design goal was "it shall go 'bang'!"
Accuracy is wildly variable, and depends on both rifle condition and ammo quality. The latter is typically Communist, IE, all over the map, and never great. Condition is a function of when the rifle was made, and where, and how it was used. A rifle made in 1940, and given to one Red Army infantryman, with a couple of guys behind him waiting to pick up his rifle when he got shot, which was used in the most intense combat the human race has ever seen (nothing else even comes close to the Eastern Front for sheer brutality), will not be in any condition to shoot well. OTOH, if you have such a rifle, treasure it as a machine that has done far more than it's designers ever dreamed that it could, or would ever have to do. Post-war Warsaw Pact rifles were used far less roughly, and there's a lot of pre-war 91/30s that were pretty well-made, and depending on the units they were issued to, may not have seen the kind of service that the war-era guns did. It's a crapshoot. Sometimes in both senses of the word.
My Hungarian M44 will shoot the Czech silvertip into around 2.5 - 3.5" at 100 yards, if I'm shooting well. If my handloads can get me at or below 2", I'll be happy.
I love mine, although for refinement, quality, and accuracy, it doesn't hold a candle to my K31. But then, not much does, including many commercial sporting rifles. I also tend to shoot the two quite differently. With the K31, it's a careful, precise process, even more so since I scoped it. With the M44, it's more like, "Hey, I wonder if I can hit that rock/target/box/random object over there... BANG!!"
Mosins are fun.
--Shannon
Is still about as cheap as it gets if you're talking about "plinking" with a full-power rifle. Locally, Czech silvertip is 5-6 bucks a box, and bulk surplus is still around $0.10 / round. Selection isn't what it was a year ago, bt there's always something available. It's all corrosive, and accuracy can vary widely (true of the guns as well.) Given the cost of 7.62x54R reloadable brass, rifle bullets, and the amount of powder per load, you still can't reload for the Mosin cheaper than suplus ammo. Commercial ammo is available, around $21 / box where I buy it (Big 5).
Recoil from my M44 is stiff, to say the least. A $15 butler creek slip-on pad helped a lot, both by providing some protection from the great-for-bashing-in-Nazi-skulls steel buttplate, and for adding some length of pull to a stock that seems not to fit any known member of Homo Sapiens. Really, the "ergonomics" of the Mosin stock are so awful that it's hard to believe that it was an accident. Anything that sucks that bad has to have been designed that way on purpose.
Standing, I can shoot 60-80 rounds in a session, after owning the rifle for a year or so. From the bench, it's more like a box. When I first shot it from the bench, one magazine-full and I was done. You get used to it, and you learn to shoot it the "right" way. You'll know immediately if you're doing it wrong. "Wrong" is determined by the rifle, not by you!! There's something so basically Russian about that, it's almost part of their charm.
Reliability is legendary. The entire action has 5 moving parts. Trigger, sear/spring/striker block, bolt body, bolt head, magazine follower. When you take it apart, it's obvious that the #1 design goal was "it shall go 'bang'!"
Accuracy is wildly variable, and depends on both rifle condition and ammo quality. The latter is typically Communist, IE, all over the map, and never great. Condition is a function of when the rifle was made, and where, and how it was used. A rifle made in 1940, and given to one Red Army infantryman, with a couple of guys behind him waiting to pick up his rifle when he got shot, which was used in the most intense combat the human race has ever seen (nothing else even comes close to the Eastern Front for sheer brutality), will not be in any condition to shoot well. OTOH, if you have such a rifle, treasure it as a machine that has done far more than it's designers ever dreamed that it could, or would ever have to do. Post-war Warsaw Pact rifles were used far less roughly, and there's a lot of pre-war 91/30s that were pretty well-made, and depending on the units they were issued to, may not have seen the kind of service that the war-era guns did. It's a crapshoot. Sometimes in both senses of the word.
My Hungarian M44 will shoot the Czech silvertip into around 2.5 - 3.5" at 100 yards, if I'm shooting well. If my handloads can get me at or below 2", I'll be happy.
I love mine, although for refinement, quality, and accuracy, it doesn't hold a candle to my K31. But then, not much does, including many commercial sporting rifles. I also tend to shoot the two quite differently. With the K31, it's a careful, precise process, even more so since I scoped it. With the M44, it's more like, "Hey, I wonder if I can hit that rock/target/box/random object over there... BANG!!"
Mosins are fun.
--Shannon
jpwilly
Member
Get one of each! That's only what $600-700 to get them all? I've spent twice that on a few of my rifles...
- Status
