Cheaper Than Dirt won't ship legal "assault weapon gear" to CA

[orionengnr]

We do a lot of bitching about eBay and PayPal...for good reason.

But eBay is a CA based company, and that goes a long way towards explaining their policies.

I do not excuse them, and I no longer use them. But I have a bit more insight as to the "whys".

BTW, for a while, I lived in Northeastern Illinois, and while there were no ammo restrictions in my town, some would not ship to my county because I was "too close to Chicago". I reluctantly agreed...and moved to Texas.

I am no longer "too close to Chicago". God Bless Texas.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Cheers everyone.

 

[Hoppy590]

same with most stuff to MA

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

or would you rather serve a hostile market in which you product is barely legal by technicality and subject to change at any time?

The products aren't barely legal, it is fully 100% legal to ship and possess in and of itself. It only becomes illegal when someone attaches the part(s) to certain kinds of rifles. CTD does not ship firearms, thus they can never be held liable for shipping "assault weapon gear" (except for >10 mags, which I'm not complaining about). The law is not subject to change at any time, bills only get passed and signed into law once a year, and the Cal-DOJ puts out a notice, and they will even go so far as to notify manufacturers outside the state.

There is something called "opertunity cost."

I know what opportunity cost is. 5 minutes asking the Cal-DOJ for opening up 10% more of the U.S. population to certain products isn't worth it? The opportunity cost is nil. They've already wasted more time than that by setting up the restrictions alone.

I can believe it. Too risky to try to keep up with the anti-gun law de jure in California.

Who would believe that it would be a crime to sell a holster for a .380 in Los Angeles? Well...

That law against selling that is blatantly illegal, as there is a pre-emption at the state level in California. That's why the recent SF ban (prop H) got tossed. Sometimes these illegal local ordinances do get through. I don't know how the holster case ended, but the company is still in business in L.A. County. However, there isn't a single case that I'm aware of an out-of-state company getting in legal trouble for what they shipped to California. If something is iffy, the DOJ lets out-of-state companies know before anyone gets sued/arrested.

Yes, the situation here is crappy, but I think it is overblown. If a company isn't sure, read the law or email the DOJ. It is actually not that hard to do. Some companies suffer from the same fearful/dismissive attitude as Henry Bowman, "oh, it is just too much to keep up with". It isn't!

I think it is productive to talk about moving out of states you don't like.... We can always use a healthy reminder about those things.

It isn't a "healthy reminder", it is a barrage "Move or change it" comes up every time in a thread about California. Companies and shooters adopt the condescending attitude of "oh, that's just California". That only helps the antis divide and conquer, which in the long run will hurt their profits.

Vote with your feet and your tax money, instead of impotently whining and complaining.

What, are you complaining that I'm complaining?

 

[Master Blaster]

About four years ago Midway was having a sale on some Aussie .308 surplus, so I tried to order some of it, having been ordering parts, bullets and reloading equipment form Midway for years. The web checkout menu advised me that they do not ship ammunition to Wilmington, Delaware????????

First I ever heard of mail order ammo being restricted to my state, with our NRA A rated Attorney General, and our NRA A rated Governor. So I called them and they said to me that

"They wouldn't ship to Wilmington Delaware, because Massachusetts restricts the sale of mail order ammunition,"

Moment of silence on my end So then I ask the Gent to repeat what he said:

"Midway USA will not ship restricted ammunition to Wilmington, Delaware because the Massachusetts AG does not allow mail order ammo."

OK, so I ask for the manager, who tells me that they have a list of restricted places prepared by their attorney, and thats what it says.

I then offered to send their attorney a MAP of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA So he could see that Wilmington Delaware is 500 miles from Massachusetts, and in fact a seperate state, I also offered him the AG of the STATE OF DELAWARE's phone number so their LAWYER could check.

I then bought my Aussie surplus .308 from AIM Surplus who had no problem shipping it to Delaware. About a year later when I got over my anger at Midway, I decided to order some bullets from them, I also ordered some .22lr and some .223 ammo they had on sale just to see what would happen.

They were now shipping ammo to Wilmington DE again.

 

[Zen21Tao]

Don't get me wrong, I find it noble that people in Cali still want to put up a fight for their rights and I applaud that. However, I also respect the rights of business owners to conduct business as they see fit. Just because they have a product you want, that doesn't mean they should be forced to sell it to you, no matter how much good it does for our side. I see so much of the "by any means necessary" as longs as it helps gun rights mentality on THR but remember, they key is we want one of our RIGHTS respected by others. Infringing on the rights of others to accomplish this is nothing more than hypocritical.

 

[Augustwest]

It makes no sense to abandon the country's most populous state and a huge part of the national economy. California will set legislative and legal precedent on a national level if left to its devices. How about all you COWARDS stop cutting and running, and verbally sniping at us here fighting back?

And my post is as about as high road as the rest of you put together.

Wow. Three sentences to make sure I never pay attention to anything you post ever again. Well done.

As far as the OP goes I understand your frustration, but really can't hold this decision against CTD. Bill Lockyer is a rotten-to-the-core statist goon. I wouldn't put it past him at all to try to bankrupt a company with frivolous legal manuvering.

It's a question of risk management. And apparently CTD has decided that the risk of selling those items in California is too high.

 

[Art Eatman]

This is getting to be more internal squabbling than discussing. Either discuss or quit, okay? The horse is well on its way to being dead, and griping about California is pointless...

Art

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Medula Oblongata,

I know California’s gun laws can look nasty and random at first glance, but they really are not that un-navigable, and there is a workable system that companies can safely operate within. Furthermore, of the items in question (“Assault Weapon Gear”), many companies sell them today in California with no problems, yet only a few companies, such as CTD, refuses to ship them to Calfironia.

Firearms are a whole different ball of wax, and CTD does not sell them anywhere in the U.S. mail order—California isn’t singled out, so your points on these items are not valid to this specific discussion.

Laws regarding holsters can pop-up anywhere, and often do, in otherwise gun-friendly states, but CTD still allows the sale of those to California. Anyway, that’s not really what I’m talking about. What I’m talking about is an incredibly stupid and lazy reading of SB23, the 2000 Assault Weapon law.

Another that comes to mind. Remember Cobray? Yup, sued into bankrupsy in California over their flare launchers.

Because they were defective and blew up in the shooters hands, not because of some byzantine legal landmine.

How about.... Nah, its not worth my time to list the thousands of firearms companies that have either gone bankrupt, been forced to suspend all sales to CA residents, or that have been sued into capitulation with CA over completely legal products.

Thousands of companies? That’s the kind of exaggeration I’m talking about. I’d like to see you name one of one out-of-state company that went out of business because they made a mistake interpreting California law.

MY PREDICTION: Within 10 years CA will declare a "public health emergency" because of "firearms deaths" and order the comfiscation of all privately owned firearms.

More exaggeration.

I'm excercizing my constitutional right to bitch and complain the same as you. The difference is that my complaining doesn't fall on deaf ears, such as anything you try to camplain to the CA government about

Not correct, the micro-stamping bill, for example, was killed because of pressure on a few Democratic politicians that came to our side.

 

[crunker]

Hey, they don't make exceptions for L.E., so that's kind of a step in the right direction.
What needs to happen in CA is a political revolution.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

To all who suggest someone 'move to another state' from CA:

What will you do when the socialist mentality fully infects your state? I'm going back and forth with Ebay right now (CA based company), regarding a reflex sight - THAT THEY SAY IS A PART TO A MACHINEGUN. Sorry for the yelling, but this situation gives me a lot of insight as to the rot in their collective brain (hoplophobes) when it comes to guns - anything that could be 'evil' you better believe, is evil with those people.

What will you do when they infect Texas, Florida and other 'gun friendly' states? Where will you move. CA RKBA people have my respect for having the balls to speak up. Ebay is the same IMO as CTD and more companies will only follow suit (to avoid any liability) - so support those businesses who support you.