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Check Out This Map!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by fish2xs, Oct 21, 2003.

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  1. fish2xs

    fish2xs Member

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    http://www.fsguns.com/righttocarry.html

    How accurate is this map? In 1986 I was a young pup of 22 years,
    but I don't recall Texas or Nevada being "No-issue" back then...?

    Maybe I don't understand what no-issue means. By the looks of
    this map, one would believe that in all places except CA, NY/NJ/MA
    and a few places in the midwest, the rights of gun owners have
    made tremendous gains in the past 17 years.

    Is that accurate? More importantly, WAS IT THAT BAD IN 1986?

    Old timers, please clue me in. Here in MA it seems that things
    have gotten worse, not better....
     
  2. jdege

    jdege Member

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    If Texas wasn't no-issue in 1991, then every news report of the Luby's shooting was wrong.

    Recognize that the categorization can be complicated. Alabama and Connecticut have discretionary laws, but are shall-issue in practice. Hawaii has discretionary laws, but is no-issue in practice.

    And in many of the states that are no-issue, open carry is theoretically legal. But while in some open-carry states, open carry is no problem, in other "open-carry" states (Ohio and Wisconsin, for example), open carry will get you arrested.

    The info I used in making that map came from the NRA's website, confirmed by a Cramer and Kopel's paper on shall-issue laws. If someone can point me to more correct information, I will update the map.
     
  3. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    TX didn't start issuing 'til '94 IIRC.

    GT
     
  4. fish2xs

    fish2xs Member

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    jdege

    >> The info I used in making that map came from the NRA's website, confirmed by a Cramer and Kopel's paper on shall-issue laws.

    Cool! The author...

    Since you've studied this, how would you say things generally
    are progressing for gun owners since 87? In MA it is decidedly
    worse, but overall.....?
     
  5. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    Texas not only had a "no issue" policy for concealed handguns, but open carry of hand guns was completely illegal prior to 1996. There were "defenses to prosecution" provided for "sporting purposes" and "travel" but that's it. Long guns, of course, could (and still can) be carried anywhere without restriction (aside for causing a public distrubance of course).
     
  6. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Nevada only started issuing after the 94 legislaters made it a "Shall Issue" state. Until then you had to own a Casino or be Elvis or be a friend of a Sheriff/Governor, etc to carry with a license, unless you had "connections".

    95 was the beginning of the NV shall issue era.

    Lotsa "Registered Gun Owners" nowadays, neh? For Better or Worse.

    Adios
     
  7. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    I find it ironic that California has been may issue longer than most of the states that are now shall-issue. Goes to show that 'progressive' isn't.
     
  8. WhoKnowsWho

    WhoKnowsWho Member

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    That website also has a listing of what can't be sold in Mass... I thought California was bad...
     
  9. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    Shall-issue in Texas began Jan. 1, 1996. I began carrying in April of that year.
     
  10. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    Personally I think "May issue" is WORSE than "No issue" because it is completely discriminatory. Places like CA and NY generally only issue permits to the rich and/or connected while they make the rest of us "prove a need" to some half educated sherriff who gets to decide on any whim what our rights may be.
     
  11. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    The big kick for CCW in Texas came with the Luby's cafeteria massacre.

    I was sitting on an exercise bike at Bally's in Bethesda, Maryland, when Dan Rather popped on and announced the incident, calling the Glock the "preferred handgun of drug dealers and terrorists..."
     
  12. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    Some may-issue states are practically no issue like Caulifornia :D and Maryland. Or worse elite-issue for only the landed gentry and members of the ruling party... :banghead:

    Delaware is may-issue but shall-issue in practice. We are also have a law forcing reciprocity with any state who recognizes our permits.
     
  13. moa

    moa Member

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    Has not the count of "shall issue" States gone up since the 2003 map was created? I thought it was 35 or 36 States at the present.
     
  14. jrhead75

    jrhead75 Member

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    The map only goes back to '86, and shows Washington as one of the few shall issue states then...but it wasn't back in the 70s, it was discretionary. So we've made some progress up here in the top left corner too. Now for Class III...
     
  15. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    In NY it depends on what county you're in......forget NYC.....but here in upstate,I and alot of my friends have a permit w/ no restrictions.....
     
  16. jdege

    jdege Member

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    Washington state became shall-issue, as I understand it, in 1961.

    As for the map, I've had some quibbles about the status of some states before they adopted shall-issue. Was Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Kentucky, etc., may-issue or no-issue in 1986?

    If anyone has better info, let me know.

    As for the latest changes, New Mexico, Colorado, Minnesota, and Missouri (pending their lawsuit) have become shall-issue so far this year, and Alaska has adopted Vermont-carry.

    All of these changes are reflected in the map.
     
  17. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    So, on the topic, when did the first laws *restricting* concealed carry get enacted? 1934? 1963? 1968?

    Anyone know a good place to look for that sort of thing? I know that once upon a time, there were no laws about concealed carry, so all states were implicitly like Vermont. Then they started saying it's illegal. Then they started saying it's legal again, but with xyz restrictions. Any idea how that timeline looks?
     
  18. tiberius

    tiberius Member

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    No restrictions? So is your permit good in NYC or can municipal governments overide the state issued license?
     
  19. jdege

    jdege Member

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    The first gun control laws in the US were passed, AUI, back in the decades before the Civil War, aimed at free blacks.

    The second set were passed in the reconstruction era, and were race-neutral in language, but not in enforcement.

    The third set came in the 1930s. The "Uniform Firearms Act" was state-level legislation intended to accompany the National Firearms act of 1934, and it was this that established the discretionary permitting system. (New York's Sullivan law was the early model for these.)
     
  20. J Miller

    J Miller Member

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    jdege,

    Very interesting map. Wife and I were trying to study the progression of things and couldn't get our eyes focused fast enough.
    Is there a way to stop this map from updating so we can study it?
     
  21. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Pennsylvania was definitely may issue in 1986.

    My parents both got their permits to carry in, I believe, 1985. I got mine in 1987.
     
  22. Wedge

    Wedge Member

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    No NY state permits are good in NYC.

    You don't have to be rich or connected to get a carry permit in New York state. You just have to be determined and willing to go through all the red tape associated with it. The procedure to get a permit in NY is not that much more of a PITA than it is in a lot of states. Individual counties can regulate things to a degree and rumors abound as to what the rules are.

    I wish we were shall issue in NY but until then, I am happy that I at least took the time and effort to get my current permit.
     
  23. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    fish, for me in '86 carrying was not a problem. Not a problem now either.

    We have made tremendous gains. However, we have a long way to go. :)
     
  24. jrhead75

    jrhead75 Member

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    Could be, I got here in 76, and when I first applied in 78, I had to go interview with the sheriff, and tell him why I wanted one. Either I misinterpreted, or the sheriff was jerking me around, because he gave me a pretty good third degree.

    One thing that has changed, is the fact that municipalities can no longer supercede state law with tougher carry restrictions.
     
  25. jdege

    jdege Member

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    http://www.claytoncramer.com/shall-issue.html
    October 17, 1994
    "Shall Issue": The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws
    By Clayton E. Cramer & David B. Kopel

     
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